LAL RIPPLET input sensitive tremolo

[Gila_Crisis]

hi , does someone know where i can find the schem of the lastgast RIPPLET input sensitive tremolo?

here's the description from the LAL site:
"The "RIPPLET input sensitive tremolo" (RP) is an effect pedal in which size of the input affects the speed of the tremolo ( in a "tremolo", a tone's amplitude or loudness increases and decreases in a wave-like effect.)

Characterized by a very natural wave and soft tone.

When the RP has a stronger input signal, the tremolo speed will increase. Conversely, if the input signal is weak, the tremolo speed will decrease.
"

[gez]

There's a Penfold project that does the same thing, you might be able to track it down.

Have a look at the LM13700 data sheet and you'll see voltage controled LFOs.  You can use these (envelope driven) to achieve the same effect.

[Gila_Crisis]

sounds interesting, could you maybe give me the link of that???

[gez]

sounds interesting, could you maybe give me the link of that???

The Penfold project isn't on line.  I think it was in the following book:

Edit: Sorry, will repost link in a while
Edit2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750621192/qid=1108301642/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-9924185-4161468



If you click on the 'table of contents' it mentions an 'envelope tremolo'.  I'll check my files (I have photocopies from this book) to see if it's the right one.  Will let you know if it is.  

If this is the right book I can thoroughly recommend it!  Â£15 (the cheapest copy they have is just under this) might sound expensive, but there are some really good projects/ideas and excellent run-downs of each circuit (especially the chorus if I recall).  I'd better check first though, there's another one he did and it might be in that...

[gez]

OK, I checked my files.  I'm pretty sure the above book has been long out of print so get it while you can.  I checked the Maplin website and they no longer sell it (and I haven't seen it in their catalogue for many years).

There are two circuits in it that fit the bill, the 'Envelope Tremolo' and the 'Dynamic Tremolo'.  There are also two other trem circuits, as well as a 'dual-tracking unit' and a chorus.

These are the only ones I bothered photocopying, so perhaps £15 is a little steep?  According to Amazon's blurb some of the other circuits are: Accented metronome; Bass fuzz; Dynamic treble booster; Fuzz unit; Guitar compressor; Guitar headphone amplifier; Lowpass filter effects unit; Microphone preamp limiter; Midi lead box; Midi through box; Parametric equaliser; Stylus organ; Treble booster; Woodblock synthesiser (ah, the joys of the Woodblock synthesiser!  :roll: )



http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM13700.pdf

Read up on envelope followers (Mark's article) and hook one up to one of the VCLFOs in the above link and you can cobble something together yourself.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

As Gez says, any voltage controlled oscillator (set to LFO range) driven by an envelope will do the job.
In my experience, the problem is that the LFO has to be running at a pretty fast rate, and the envelope needs a pretty sharp attack and decay, if you are going to notice the trem/volume relationship.
Try rocking a trem rate knob while playing a guitar track thru it, and you will get the idea!
But if you DO make one, then be sure to put a jack in so that an external control voltage or an external expression foot pedal can be used to control the LFO rate as an alternative.

[moosapotamus]

One of the coolest and SIMPLEST envelope followers I know of is the one that Tim Escobedo has in his uglyface. You can use that to mod a tremolo for envelope speed control. Put the LDR leads across the speed pot, lugs 1 and 3, the outside lugs (not the one in the middle). Haven't actually tried it, myself. But, I know someone here has and it worked. The harder you pick, the faster the rate, and the rate slows down as the signal decays.

What I'd like to know is how to make it go the other way, speed up as the note decays.

~ Charlie

[gez]

What I'd like to know is how to make it go the other way, speed up as the note decays.

In general, set the envelope follower up so that it sweeps downwards from the positive rail (rather than upwards from ground) and with a fast attack.  Or use another op-amp to invert the original envelope...

[Mark Hammer]

Although in principle, reversing the effect of input level on LFO rate ought to be simply a matter of inverting the envelope voltage, my gut sense is that it isn't quite that simple.

The general intent of delayed tremolo is to mimic vocal vibrato/tremolo as the singer runs out of breath.  If we were to graph the way that such modulation is introduced, I think you'd find that it is NOT simply the mirror image of modulation that responds to initial attack transients with high speed then decellerates.  Rather, it will be a somewhat different rate of acceleration in response to envelope strength. with NO modulation at first.

I'm not saying that anything different will sound awful or not be musically useful.  Rather, there will be an obvious and almost reflexive desire to want to compare the way such touch-sensitive tremolo sounds with the human voice, and a simple envelope inversion will not fare terribly well.  My sense is that one would want some sort of exponential ramp-like increase, which would reset the moment you lift your finger and mute the input signal.  Not very easy to do that with a convential simple half-wave envelope follower.

The new Line 6 Tap Tremolo has an envelope-controlled LFO, that increases LFO rate in response to envelope strength such that hard strums get you fast modulation which "simmers down" as the note/chord decays. (the old E-H Polyphase and Polychorus did the same thing).  I have to say that it takes some getting used to  Line 6's implementation is entirely digital, and adds to the existing modulation rate.  Doing the same thing in the analog domain is certainly easy enough to accomplish, but may be similarly hard to get used to and tweak.  I find the Tap Tremolo's modulation amount pot fairly twitchy, and wished it had a range switch of some kind.  I suspect that it is designed in anticipation of a very wide range of input levels, since small rotational adjustment yields big changes in LFO-rate change in response to picking.

[moosapotamus]

Yeah, in my experience with both commercial and diy envelope controlled effects that allow sweep-up and sweep-down, you never even get what "sounds" like an inverted mirror image of the sweep when you flip the switch. Switching from up to down always requires tweaking other controls, range, sensitivity, etc... So, apparently not a simple feat.

But, anyway...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=29374
(beat you to it, puretube  :wink: )
No doubt, that would work with an envelope follower, too.

~ Charlie

[puretube]

how did you like the drawing, moosa, btw: my first pic painted with my right thumb...   :lol:

[puretube]

...But, anyway...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=29374
(beat you to it, puretube  :wink: )
No doubt, that would work with an envelope follower, too.

~ Charlie

it`ll even work with a more or less psychedelic light organ...  ( :wink: )  

(or even with a remote control burglar alarm: light will got out,
as soon as someone penetrates your private area... )

[J. Luja]

something similar on geofex...

http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/vibmatic.pdf

[moosapotamus]

how did you like the drawing, moosa

pt - you are an artist!

something similar on geofex...
http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/vibmatic.pdf

:shock: cool! When'd RG do that?

~ Charlie

[MartyMart]

Can someone explain to me how "dynamic" trem/vib would be of any use??
I mean, you have a "trem" in time with a songs tempo ( approx )  when you kick it in,  it works great...... so...
why would you want it "out of time" with your song when you play a bit harder   ?? :roll:  :shock:

Sorry folks, but i ust dont see a need, even though its included on my "Line 6" tap trem !!

Marty.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Can someone explain to me how "dynamic" trem/vib would be of any use??I mean, you have a "trem" in time with a songs tempo ( approx )  when you kick it in,  it works great...... so...
why would you want it "out of time" with your song when you play a bit harder   ?? :roll:  :shock: Sorry folks, but i ust dont see a need, even though its included on my "Line 6" tap trem !!Marty.

MM, I don't know how to say this.. but there is more than one kind of music
And I think that right now, somewhere in the world, a synthetic mid tom is being fed into just that algorithm! you know, it only takes one top 40 hit to use somethign like this & half the kids in the world will want it.

[MartyMart]

MM, I don't know how to say this.. but there is more than one kind of music
And I think that right now, somewhere in the world, a synthetic mid tom is being fed into just that algorithm! you know, it only takes one top 40 hit to use somethign like this & half the kids in the world will want it.

Point taken  
I guess it can be used as a "special" effect somewhere . . . . . . !
faster "wobble" as your solo gets even more HUGE !!

Marty.

[Mark Hammer]

Well, if you have a Tap Tremolo, Marty, I gather that, like myself you may find the amount of LFO-rate change in response to playing a bit twitchy.  I can easily imagine uses for dynamic changes to tremolo rate, but these tend to be somewhat smallish, compared to what the TT tends to introduce.  Let me emphasize, it's a NICE pedal, but the envelope sensitivity probably needs some tweaking in the firmware to get the most desirable translation of pick attack to LFO-rate-change.

So, it may be that you can't find a use for that much change, but may be able to imagine uses for more subtle change.

On the other hand, you will note that it is traditional for organ players to save the faster Leslie speeds for when their solos start to "pour it on", so the essential idea of faster modulation for more emotional points in a solo is not exactly unfamiliar territory.

[Gila_Crisis]

really nice the Vibra-matic project form geo-fx. but did someone ever try to build one?

[Gila_Crisis]

and where is the EAN tremolo schem??? i didn't find it on geofx...