Building pedals can be fun but...............

[Burstbucker]

I really love it when I'm putting the finishing touches on a DIY pedal but it really is a lot of work!    

For awhile I considered building some Treble Boosters and various Fuzz pedals to sell.  I was trying to come up with a price that wasn't too exorbitant, I figured that $190.00 Canadian (taxes in) would be reasonable but now that I've finished building my latest 4-knob Germanium FuzzFace, I'm thinking man, this is too much work!!!

8^)

I've built some pedals for friends but that wasn't a profit situation.  To make this worth the pain and effort I'd have to get at least $200 or $210(Canadian) bare minimum.   $300.00 (Canadian) is what it's really worth to me but that'll never happen.  

My hat goes off to the folks that can do this and make a profit.  Don't get me wrong, I love building pedals as a hobby but I'd have to make a lot more money for my efforts to make it worth my while building for other people.  I'm sure this isn't news to anybody here though.

[Mark Hammer]

Uh-huh.

Now factor in the cost of...

a scope
all those tools
all that inventory of parts you keep around for substitutions during product development
all those magazines and books you bought that you needed to learn from
(in some cases) the cost of the diploma/degree
the income you forfeited because you DIDN'T pursue a job you could have had at the time

People who "make a living" off of this can take a long period of time to be solvent, and when you factor in the last two things on the list can actually have less in lifetime earnings than they might have had playing weddings and bar mitzvahs, or repairing TVs.

[puretube]

I quit my regular job, to have more time for R`n`D...  (back then)
:shock:

[JimRayden]

Stompbox building can truly be a frustrating thing. But the joy of a new self-built pedal compensates the trouble... unless you sell it .

Well, I've been building stompboxes for a while and I'm on tube designs currently. I plan on going to amps designing/building for living in a few years. I have a woodshop I inherited from my grandfather, so I have all the tools (and, in time, knowledge) necessary to build extra-expensive handicraft amps.  

Either that or a guitar legend.  :roll:

But yea, pedal building is only worthwile when you use the best parts and components to build top notch pedals and get famous with your quality and designs and finally have some rich guitarists ordering custom pedals and pedalboards from you.

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Jimbo

[R.G.]

Yep. The reasoning on costs and price hasn't changed since I wrote Effects Economics 101 back in 1992.

[MartyMart]

Well I have been thinking quite seriously about doing just that,  BUT:

1- I just don't have enough experience.....yet ! even though I have a lot of great builds and a couple of nice designs on the way.

2- The "High End" market is chok-a-block full of great boutique pedals already, some of which are quite reasonable cost for the quality/design and standard of enclosure/graphics

3- Behringer are about to release some of the "cheapest" stompers ever!!

4- The only way to make a decent profit would be by having them made in Poland or China etc in the hundreds or thousands !

5- Selling four units a week, even for a lot of money, wouldn't cover the costs, never mind the mortgage !!

I think I'll stick with the "Mods" site and the fun/learning curve for now :roll:
Watch this space . . . . . .
PS: The new "Modifications" only pedal site is up next week at:
www.listermods.com


Marty.

[JimRayden]

And I was not disencouraging anyone to build stompboxes for selling. You just have to find your "nack" of doing it the way you love and the way you get the most profit in the long run.


------------
Jimbo

[BDuguay]

There is one more angle to this scenario that hasn't been touched on. The problem I have is when I've finished a pedal for someone, and put in all the time and effort necessary to make it sound good, durable, and look good, is I have trouble letting it go. It's like I want to go with it to make sure it's appreciated, taken care of, and not abused. Still, my goal is to replace all the commercially available pedals I currently use with my own versions of them then sell the others and be ahead of the game slightly. Then I can take pride in the fact that everything mucking up/improving my guitar signal is something I made. Then I can relax with a beer and a big satisfying smile on my face.
B.

[JimRayden]

Golden words. Exactly my thoughts. One day I want to have only self-built gear. I already have designed a guitar and bought the wood for it. Yes, I do guitars too.

I'm starting to dig into stompbox and amp circuit designing to have absolutely everything self-designed, tweaked and built.

For now, I have to be with my dear Tube Driver and a digital modelling amp. I truly hate the amp and am going to get rid of it as soon as I get my tube amp clone project done.

It must be a great feeling when you can design electronic circuits. "Hmm, I think I need a tubescreamer for the new song... I don't feel like surfing the net for schematics today... Ahh heck with it, I might aswell design a new one. While I'm at it, I think I'll design a few wahs and tube amps too. Maybe I can find a use to them some day."

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Jimbo

[sir_modulus]

Hmm...I'm a bit torn on this issue. For my company (Phoenix Amplification), I sell all sorts of designs (my own PCB layouts and all), but the thing is, I actually am making a really good profit. This comes from my Pricing. If I build a Fuzz Face, I sell it for about $110 Canadian, and people love it, and I sell about 3-4 a month! Now when it comes to stuff like univibes and stuff, that'll cost people about $400 or so for a Dunlop one, whereas mine is much higher quality (albeit bigger), and is only about $180 or so. For me, this whole company turns out to be working GREAT (especially the amplifier part).

I dunno though...I have access to a lot of equipment (Drill presses, Scopes, Signal Generators, etc...), so it's really cheap and easy for me.

Cheers,

Nish

[Burstbucker]

sir-modulus

You can make a decent profit selling a FuzzFace clone for $110.00 Canadian!?  Wow!!!

I figure it probably costs me $70.00 Canadian for all of the materials alone.  It would take me the better part of a day to build a decent pedal from the ground up, paint, labeling etc...

[puretube]

:lol:
boxes for nothing, and switch` for free...
:oops:

[j0shua]

Hmmm are more expensive in canada then here hehe


this is a list of i sale to my guitar & bass students ( NOT PUBLIC ONLY
FOR MY STUDENTS.....


EFFECT=======ONLY PCB $=====COMPLETE BOX (TESTED)$
============================================

BIG DADDY          US$ 10.00 ------------------US$ 65.00
ORANGE SQUIZ.   US$ 10.00 ------------------US$ 50.00
MXR DIST.+         US$ 10.00 ----------------- US$ 65.00
RODENT DST.       US$ 18.50  -----------------US$ 88.00
ROCKMAN DST.    US$ 10.00  -----------------US$ 60.00
LM386 PRAC. AMP   NONE       ----------------US$ 75.00 *****

**** INCLUDE SPEAKER , WOOD BOX AND WORK *****

** MOD PEDALS ( ARE MANY UNKNOWN BRANDS HERE )


** SOME NAMES ( NAMCO DISTORTION, PLC, KLM ) THOSE ONES ARE CRAP! ....... TAIWAN CLONES

[JimRayden]

It's actually all in your business plan and your connections. And ambition.

sir_modulus, I don't think you could sell fuzz faces for that price for the primary living. I'm suspecting you do that for some extra money.

By the way, modulus, I'm searching for manufacturers for my brother's internet store. He's a reseller. PM me if you're interested in spreading your products a bit wider. And maybe raise your prices.  :roll:

------------
Jimbo

[sir_modulus]

hmm...Jim, that's an interesting proposition!

Now in regards to the pricing stuff, here's how it goes for a fuzz face. I spend about $30 or so on parts. I etch and make the board myself (stock is like about $1.00 for a FF). Then I use some Hammerite on the box ($7.00 a can, and it lasts for like 4-5 boxes if used well). Next, I just add decals from SB, and test it up. so, it costs me around $50 per pedal, and then, I get $60 or so from it! (knobs jacks/fittings all add up to about $10 or so). My business is primarily very small, and done locally, but lot's of local bands etc... buy my stuff, as it's "boutique" and it is also cheaper than most. So, that's how I get my money, and it's mainly for affording more F/X and other stuff.

Cheers,

Nish

[jmusser]

I can't think of anyway the average Joe could ever makea profit off these things. They are very labor intensive, and when you have a working circuit, you're really only a 1/4 of the way there with all the fab stuff. I have a huge amount of time into the housings, because everyone is unique, A lot of the housings cost me next to nothing at a yard sale or something, but the labor into making them a true enclosure, and then painting and labeling, Lord! I have so much into them, that I couldn't bring myself to sell them in the first place, and in the second place, nobody could pay what I'd have to ask for them. It's just has to be something you enjoy. It the same for most things that are not commercial.

[sir_modulus]

Hmm...the profit really depends on what you have, and your skill with stuff. I used to make even a decent profit when I sold pedals that were on breadboard inside unpainted/unfinished 1590's, and with toggle switches, and without knobs by selling them to friends who were tight on money (we were all like 13 back then...so money wasn't all that easy to come by...).

Cheers, to all

Nish

[JimRayden]

The problem is, if you're selling them too cheaply and have yourself advertised, the chance is, you'll have a mass of poor musicians ordering the good quality handcrafted products in the quantities you couldn't build that fast.

So, price is also a way to manipulate with the crowds. You can sure build stompboces and sell them with 2 bucks of profit each, but you can't handle the amount of orders.

---------------
Jimbo

[puretube]

then just become a Boreing*r-dealer...

[JimRayden]

Now that was an evil thing to say, wasn't it?  :lol:


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Jimbo