Behringer sued by Roland

[Dragonfly]

Behringer, to my knowledge, has yet to develop a product on their own...pretty much everything that they offer in their line is a copy of someone else's product...

DEQ2496 is a counter example.

Klark Teknik DN9340

I assume you are not saying they copied the DSP software program or other such technology.

I assume you are pointing out that there was an existing (really expensive but hopefully very nice) product on the market that provided 31 band digital equalization and parametric equalization.  So there was a prior proof of concept and a product on the market from which to gauge interest.

The DEQ249 has added some additional capabilities beyond that and so could be considered as having incremental innovation.

I do see your comparison though.

exactly...

Is your measure whether a capability is offered for sale?  If it is, would you suggest that the rules be that no other company could provide the same capability once it has been offered by one company?

No...im not saying anything to that effect whatsoever. I'm simply saying, that to my knowledge (which is by no means "all inclusive"), Behringer has yet to produce anything of its own design.

There will always be companies that exist solely to produce products that imitate other companies products...and I'm not saying whether thats right or wrong. I'm simply saying that its a "personal choice" as to whether or not you support "parasitic" companies. I choose not to...you might choose otherwise, and thats fine.

What I do think is wrong, however, is a blatent attempt to "fool" the consumer by directly copying the aesthetics and/or name of a previously established product.

BTW...i'll be introducing my new guitar soon, the Gibsun Less Poll ...it has a "classic" designed body shape, 2 humbucking pickups, and a carved top.   :shock:

[casey]

All you people who think Behringer are great are probably exactly the same ones who will bitch and moan about a lack of 'new ideas' in a few years time when fewer manufacturers are making original pedals. Who'll bother starting a new pedal biz when pricing expectations of consumers have been warped, and when they might possibly have their product ripped off?

Purchase of Behringer producs is implicit approval of their business practices AND implicit approval of their out-sourcing of labour to third-world countries. How much is your moral position on these things worth? US$50 per stompbox?

Mike

i actually dont have anything from behringer except for a rackmount compressor that has performed flawlessly on the road for 5 years.

anyway, mark, you are right, but the sad thing is that most companies are going to "third world countries..."  can China be considered as such?

anyway, you'd be surprised as to how much stuff that you own, sitting in your house at this very moment was made in a third world country.

take a look at all of the tags on your clothes.....
it's a sad affair, but it's true.

i guess my whole point in all of this, is that behringer - although they ripped boss off of their design, has not made a comparable product, but a much worse, plastic cased un-road worthy pedal only good for the occasional weekend warrior...where as boss is for the most part road worthy, and a superior product.

any serious guitarist can see that.....

anyway, no matter how cheesy behringer has been, i dont beleive it will be a serious threat to boss...or at least not any more.

[mikeb]

anyway, mark, you are right, but the sad thing is that most companies are going to "third world countries..."  can China be considered as such?

Yes - I've seen it for myself.

anyway, you'd be surprised as to how much stuff that you own, sitting in your house at this very moment was made in a third world country.
take a look at all of the tags on your clothes.....
it's a sad affair, but it's true.

I know all that, as do most people, but it doesn't mean you need to buy into it. Seeing as our countries, especially (the USA and Australia) are amongst those that have the most to lose, it also makes sense to me that we are the ones that should be 'on the lookout' the most. For example, don't buy any Pigtronix pedals either - their super-spammed phaser is made in China also.

Maybe I'm just having a bad day - I got three phone calls from one of those !*^@%!^@% Indian call centres yesterday trying to sell me stuff.  :evil:

Mike

[Hal]

I really agree with stupid marking trick.  There are TONS of cheap pedal makers out there (Arion, new DOD, 'rogue'...plus MANY more) and none of them recieve any publicity.  Just check out the HCFX forum on this topic.  EVERYONE, myself included, was awaiting their release.  I was curious to A/B them with the origional bosses and see what happens.

EVIL?  Idk.  I think they crossed the line when they made the pedals not only look the same, but, essentially, function the same.  They all have the same number of pots.  The colors.  Similar names...They were _clearly_ ripoffs.

Nothing wrong with that.  I own a Peavey Ultra 112 - same circuit as the 212, which, as far as I've heard, was at some point copy of the Fender Twin.  Looks nothing like it, though.  Nor was that advertised (as this is, indirectly).  I just liked the sound, so I bought it.

[Paul Marossy]

I'm surprised that Roland hasn't sued Johnson yet. They make those pedals that look like Boss pedals, but about 1" longer. These cheapo Johnson pedals are up for sale all the time on ebay.

Here's an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41416&item=7303898579&rd=1

[Hal]

but thats a TS9 clone...

[javacody]

RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU LIKE MARSHALL AMPS

RIPOFF OF THE FENDER BASSMAN, SAME BASIC CIRCUIT WITH SLIGHT TWEAKS.

[Hal]

javacody - exactly my point.  Everything is a ripoff.

But Behringer _was_ marketing them almost as boss pedals.  I'm not saying that I think its good or bad, but I do think that boss was kinda justified.  Still, I woulda been happy to play with them.

[Dragonfly]

RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU LIKE MARSHALL AMPS

RIPOFF OF THE FENDER BASSMAN, SAME BASIC CIRCUIT WITH SLIGHT TWEAKS.

thats true, though Jim Marshall did make quite a few changes....

HOWEVER.....

Jim Marshall didnt package it in a tweed cabinet and call it a "Bassmaster" or a "Bossman"...  Behringer would've....thats the difference....Behringer seems to have full intent to "mislead" the public into thinking that their product is the same product as EH and Boss....

[sir_modulus]

ya...I'd have to tend to agree. Being a DIY'er, I'd say that I'd love to have the enclosures/parts for that cheap....but c'mon...it's just a little cheap to copy the shape/size/control layout/lettering, and slightly change the name...

I don't generally like BOSS, though I do think that most of their compact pedals are very well priced, but in this case...I'd say it's just stupid of Boring-ger to do that. But, notheless...it's boss...couldn't say I didn't expect to see a lawsuit coming...they've got the money (too bad I don't...stupid richness... :evil: )

Cheers,

Nish

[austin]

i downsized a mackie 1202 for a behringer ub502 mixer.  the behringer is obviously much lower quality, but i didn't need so many inputs, so it works out better for me.  i would've gladly payed the mackie price for a similarly sized mixer made by mackie.  

i think this just further devalues stompboxes in general, which will make it harder for a smaller company to make a living.  people will be less inclined to pay the higher "boutique" prices when they can get 5 behringers for the same price.  

in the US, everybody expects cheap goods.  where it's made, who makes it, what they spray it with, the environmental impact, etc are little value when all you care about is cheap.

[StephenGiles]

But......does it really matter???
Stephen

[Dragonfly]

But......does it really matter???
Stephen

yes...it absolutely does matter....

if you or someone in your family worked for Boss, Mackie, EH, etc....Behringer is not only taking food out of your mouth, but making it tougher for you to get pay raises....


think of it this way....

if YOU wrote a song, and some guy took your chords, lyrics, and melody, and re-recorded it...then sold it to Pepsi for $100k for use in a commercial...how would YOU feel if you get zero compensation for your creation ?

it ain't far fetched...ive seen it happen before....

[Aharon]

Again with the "taking food out of your mouth" premise..........geez
It'll matter a LITTLE when next the ask to close this forum down.
Aharon

[javacody]

Behringer was probably just jumping on the bandwagon. Lots of other companies copy Boss pedals pretty closely. I think Behringer is the only real visible company to do so.

I agree, Boss has the right to defend itself, I'm just saying this ain't the Crusades, the search for the Holy Grail, or David vs. Goliath. It's not that big of a deal.

Now, I'm a consumer on the lower end of the richness spectrum. I see a boss pedal for $80 and I see a Behringer pedal for $30. Now, I can't afford $80 and I'm not a gigging musician. If I didn't buy the Behringer pedal, I'd probably spend the money on fast food, a movie, or beer. So how is that taking money away from Boss? Does it really matter to you which worker who makes $1 a day gets that $1?

I've never purchased a new pedal. Never (Well, not never, when I was 16 I bought an OD1). What I have (that isn't homemade) follows:

* TS5 ($20 on ebay)
* Dano Chicken Salad ($30 on ebay)
* Dunlop Reissue Fuzz Face ($40 on ebay)

I think that the premise that I'm taking food out of Boss' employees mouths by buying Behringer products is just plain dumb.

[casey]

you know its funny.... :lol:   i was just thinking how roland is not american nor it's sub. boss.  i am sure they hire alot of americans for distribution and such, but we are talking about two companies that both have their product made in asia....

anyway,

hey mike, i called you mark...sorry about that...wasnt paying too much attention i suppose.

well anyway, i think we've all beat this horse to death....

happy diy-ing folks!  

[puretube]

oooh weeeh - I`m guilty -  :oops:

just found out, that I own a Bore-inger clone, too:
(to the rescue: got it for free)



over the last years, I collected quite a series of different Boss-bags
(pic shows only one...);
Bore-inger jumped on, and started handing out shopping bags, also.[/img]

ain`t they a b*tch? - even copying marketing strategies!

[Aharon]

Besides a shopping bag(I wonder how Hudson's Bay managed not to sue Wall Mart for stealing the idea of putting goods in a bag )does anybody have pictures of these allegedly similar looking products?,cause personally I would never confuse a B*ss with  a Behrin*er,they are distinct enough.
Aharon

[mikeb]

hey mike, i called you mark...sorry about that...wasnt paying too much attention i suppose.

I was assuming you mistook me for Mark Hammer, so was (quietly) taking it as a comment....

Mike

[Lurco]

Besides a shopping bag(I wonder how Hudson's Bay managed not to sue Wall Mart for stealing the idea of putting goods in a bag )does anybody have pictures of these allegedly similar looking products?,cause personally I would never confuse a B*ss with  a Behrin*er,they are distinct enough.
Aharon

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