The Jordon Boss Tone is a Monster!

jmusser · March 14, 2005, 11:50:29 AM

Apparently this circuit is not only capable of making a monster sound, but a monster thread too! I'm glad I was able to generate some interest in this circuit, because it deserves it, and I'm sure Aron is tickled after it took the time to whip it into shape. Rick mentioned the "Iron Man" tone. That was the first thing it reminded me of when I played it, was Iomi's tone. I have been an Iomi fan since the early 70s when I bought the "Paranoid" album. None of that has changed. Last year, I bought the "Last Supper" DVD and he was still awesome. You could have turned your back and the music would have sounded just like the Paranoid album. Since I had never had the pleasure of seeing them live, this DVD was a treat. I never realized how intense of a bass player Geezer was until I watched him. Bill Ward is still one of my favorite drummers of all time. He's a lot like Iomi, he doesn't play a lot of flashy stuff, but plays exactly what fit's the song with a lot of taste and variety of riffs. One thing that they showed I didn't know, was Iomi is missing a finger tip, and wears some sort of rubber piece on there to make up the length. I believe thats right. I haven't watched it for awhile. Iomi's stuff makes sense to me. Where someone like Eddie VanHalen plays way more advanced and flashy stuff, a lot of times it not only has nothing to do with the chords of the song, but could be another tune altogether. I'm sure I'll catch hell for that statement. :lol: It doesn't keep me from admiring his contributions to rock guitar, and I even like a lot of his stuff ("Hot For Teacher" is incredible), but it's tasteless. Iomi defines taste to me, but I'm ancient and don't know any better.

petemoore · March 14, 2005, 12:27:21 PM

Finished the YJM308 [KIXXS !!!]
The Bosstone [JB] is at the top of the list now, hopefully I'll be able to test one this afternoon !!!

squidsquad · March 14, 2005, 01:32:53 PM

I'm glad about the interest shown also. As I said...been a fan of that box since I was 18...and I'm about to turn 55...YEOW! I agree about EVH also...hehe. Unfortunately....the JB I just built gave me nothing but OD. Cleans up well though! I subbed Q1....I'll get the correct one & give it another go. I DO know exactly what it should sound like...as I have magical recordings from the *good old days*! I miss them overtones.....

Dragonfly · March 14, 2005, 01:55:07 PM

Quote from: petemooreFinished the YJM308 [KIXXS !!!]
The Bosstone [JB] is at the top of the list now, hopefully I'll be able to test one this afternoon !!!

well...ya got plenty of layouts to choose from !

Alex C · March 14, 2005, 11:18:07 PM

Hey guys, great work on the layouts! Today I wired up the Bosstone on some veroboard from Aron that just arrived. I left out the "attack" pot, because it's fuzz, and I'm pretty sure I'd dime it all the time. I wanted to use a switch to add in the clipping diodes, but I didn't have one, so I used a variable resistor instead.

I used Andy's layout, and I omitted the unnecessary connections, which got my board down to 1.5" x 1", despite the fact that I had to double- or triple-up resistors to obtain the specified values [(100k + 47k) for 150k, (470k + 68K + 22K) for 560k, and (10k + 4.7k + 3.3k) for 18k]. I used 2N3904 and 2N3906, but they're socketed, so I"ll try out some more.

I love the way this sounds, and the build was fantastic! I am a big fan of veroboard now. Thanks guys, time to try some other vero builds.

Alex

Dragonfly · March 14, 2005, 11:33:48 PM

Quote from: Alex CHey guys, great work on the layouts! Today I wired up the Bosstone on some veroboard from Aron that just arrived. I left out the "attack" pot, because it's fuzz, and I'm pretty sure I'd dime it all the time. I wanted to use a switch to add in the clipping diodes, but I didn't have one, so I used a variable resistor instead.

I used Andy's layout, and I omitted the unnecessary connections, which got my board down to 1.5" x 1", despite the fact that I had to double- or triple-up resistors to obtain the specified values [(100k + 47k) for 150k, (470k + 68K + 22K) for 560k, and (10k + 4.7k + 3.3k) for 18k]. I used 2N3904 and 2N3906, but they're socketed, so I"ll try out some more.

I love the way this sounds, and the build was fantastic! I am a big fan of veroboard now. Thanks guys, time to try some other vero builds.

Alex

sounds like youve got a winner there !!!

make sure to let us know how your transistor tests go...i think i might try an ac187 germ npn as q1, and see if that works....

Alex C · March 15, 2005, 08:46:01 PM

Today I tried a 2N5089 for Q1, and I didn't notice much of a difference. I thought for sure I had a 2N5087, but I can't find any to sub in for Q2. I have a feeling that Q2 will have a bigger effect as far as changes in drive or tone, so I'll try that out if I can find one in my parts drawer, or as soon as I can get one. I'm still jamming my pants off with this thing, thanks!

petemoore · March 15, 2005, 11:03:57 PM

Finally got around to building this one, took some resistor building to do it...the two 560k's look like impedance setting base biasing resistors, and I made them 525k's because that's what was easy for me to get two matched ones at [2x1m paralleled with a series 47k each].
Total badassness of Fuzz...certain notes sustained contain an 'eq' shift...as the system 'rolls' into a focused harmonic sustain...haftsa say lots of fun for lead playing, super crunchy FuzZZ on chords.
Seems to do an amazing job fuzzing with the pregain most the way up, turning this down...pretty cool, probably use a differnt box for lower gain Fuzzes. Monster is RIGHT !!!
The diode pointing to ground cuts out alot of output...still PLenty...
Sounds pretty good without the diodes also...
Works just fine with a 3906 in Q2, louder with a 2n5089 there, Ge's didn't show much output, much lower Fuzz Content and high end dropped markedly. The 3906 is in Q2 and Q1 is BC108.
Nasty little FUZZER With a HuGE SounD ! ! !

Dragonfly · March 15, 2005, 11:08:16 PM

hey Pete...
did you vero it or perf it ?

Andy

petemoore · March 15, 2005, 11:40:59 PM

Ok...get this...I had a couple little pieces of perf left, so I 'sewed' them together with solid core wire, using/soldering to the pads...both pieces had no borders, usually I can drill one hole through both, ream the top one a bit, and be done with it after installing 2 screws...L O L !!!...works just fine, I'm a 'frugalzter' I guess, The Board is still plenty small for EZ install [2 pots..] into box.
Those 560k's were starting to 'pain' me, I didn't really want 2X a 3 chain series or resistors jammed in or strewn on there, so looking at the schem I decided Ir [input resistance?] would be adding the two 560k's, and the 18k, which would move the base bias one way or the other a little, the ratio to the 560k's...close enough for government work !!!
Impedance on this thing is plenty high, I'd think for wah [haven't looked at the front end of a wah circuit]....much better than a FF...haven't tried it with a wah, I'd imagine with the voicing and intense F, this thing would be a nasty Wah Fuzzer. Maybe a Little too much midrange/high end ? ...as intense as the high end clipping is, it's a pretty strong full range that's coming out of it....Daft....I had not a 223, so a 473 went for the output cap socket.
Nice setup, I'll try some different transistors...I'd think with the base bias 'held' by resistors on Q1 that a Ge could be pressed into service there?...didn't have any luck with upside down Ge's in Q2 position.

Dragonfly · March 15, 2005, 11:47:38 PM

Quote from: petemooreOk...get this...I had a couple little pieces of perf left, so I 'sewed' them together with solid core wire, using/soldering to the pads...both pieces had no borders, usually I can drill one hole through both, ream the top one a bit, and be done with it after installing 2 screws...L O L !!!...works just fine, I'm a 'frugalzter' I guess, The Board is still plenty small for EZ install [2 pots..] into box.
Those 560k's were starting to 'pain' me, I didn't really want 2X a 3 chain series or resistors jammed in or strewn on there, so looking at the schem I decided Ir [input resistance?] would be adding the two 560k's, and the 18k, which would move the base bias one way or the other a little, the ratio to the 560k's...close enough for government work !!!
Impedance on this thing is plenty high, I'd think for wah [haven't looked at the front end of a wah circuit]....much better than a FF...haven't tried it with a wah, I'd imagine with the voicing and intense F, this thing would be a nasty Wah Fuzzer. Maybe a Little too much midrange/high end ? ...as intense as the high end clipping is, it's a pretty strong full range that's coming out of it....Daft....I had not a 223, so a 473 went for the output cap socket.
Nice setup, I'll try some different transistors...I'd think with the base bias 'held' by resistors on Q1 that a Ge could be pressed into service there?...didn't have any luck with upside down Ge's in Q2 position.

you need to change your moniker to "Dr. Pete-enstein"

i have built bosstones with 15k's (no 18k's available in my "pile") and 510k's (no 560k's handy at the time)...no ill effects...these things pump out some great, gnarly fuzz....gotta love it ! i also built one without the "attack" knob..just the volume...i like the fuzz all the way up on this circuit !

Andy

petemoore · March 16, 2005, 02:41:27 AM

Anything in that ballpark probably won't noticably roll off any treble, and there's plenty of that to go around with JB.
the two 560k's and 18k string is most probably a ratio-ed thing, we're following the 10% rules by my calcs.
Just got done RACO lid drilling, and installing the JB. Because I mount my iron, I was able to do all the sw and jack wiring with the iron left mounted !!! IT was very easy, and went quickly !! I soldered the wire to the jack first, then trimmed and bent it just right, then by just turning the jack a little, the wire pressed exactly where I wanted it to on the switch lug !!! Gotta love that ! I like the flat top.
JB Boxed gets tried through the Big Amp Tomorrow !!!

Dragonfly · March 16, 2005, 02:49:43 AM

Quote from: petemooreAnything in that ballpark probably won't noticably roll off any treble, and there's plenty of that to go around with JB.
the two 560k's and 18k string is most probably a ratio-ed thing, we're following the 10% rules by my calcs.
Just got done RACO lid drilling, and installing the JB. Because I mount my iron, I was able to do all the sw and jack wiring with the iron left mounted !!! IT was very easy, and went quickly !! I soldered the wire to the jack first, then trimmed and bent it just right, then by just turning the jack a little, the wire pressed exactly where I wanted it to on the switch lug !!! Gotta love that ! I like the flat top.
JB Boxed gets tried through the Big Amp Tomorrow !!!

i just built a JB with a .68 input cap and a .1 output cap...22k (instead of 18k) and 510k (instead of 560k)....sounds freakin' HUGE on my old tweed Harvard...gotta try that one on my big amp tomorrow

vortex · March 16, 2005, 03:19:27 AM

Glad to see everyone's enjoying the Bosstone. I had the opportunity to try mine out tonight on a hopped up Fender Bandmaster with a 4x12 cab. Lovely!

One stupid question though, when my attack pot is near the end of it's travel i am getting a constant low tone, oscillation. I am going to try and eliminate this tommorow. I tried a 50K instead of 100K and still have the same symptom.
Any suggestions welcomed.

Otherwise , I am truely stoked about the Bosstone too!

squidsquad · March 17, 2005, 06:15:35 AM

Interesting mess here:
As stated earlier...I long for the proper JB sound...and know EXACTLY what it oughta be. My first attempt failed...and I ain't much of a de-bugger...so I started from scratch...this time...point to point (hanging garden). I used a 2n5089 for Q1...and a Radio Shack for Q2 (claiming to be 2N3906 but different #s).
Forever the rebel....I split the difference & used a .05 input....a .1 electro out...and for diodes....2 1N34A Germs on one side...and a Sil 1N4001 opposing.
I don't breadboard...in a rush to see if it would even work...put it in a box with no pots...straight in & out. I got a Moonrock! On my B string...light picking gives nice clear fuzz....digging in gets a strong low octave. In the middle range....things sorta blur & blend. On the A string...upper octaves ring in. Also have the occillation problem. Not what I want...but interesting.
"I have not yet begun to fight"...hehe!

squidsquad · March 17, 2005, 08:45:07 PM

To Mr. Vortex above. After doing a search here...I fixed my oscillation problem w/a 10k resistor on the input...before C1. I've been tweaking every cap in this sucker...trying to get the *the original* sound...and I'm pretty damn close & VERY happy now. I'll post my specs once satisfied it's as good as I can get it..

petemoore · March 17, 2005, 10:58:45 PM

I tried it through a Fender Musical Instruments "Super Twin"...sounded just great !!!
I may build one and mess with more cap sockets...I see no reason to play with the voicing..the distortion/playability is superb, might try different tranny's still...
Anyone get a Germ to bias up in Q1 ?

squidsquad · March 18, 2005, 12:46:21 AM

What's drivin me nuts (I AM a bit *mad scientist*...if only I KNEW more!)...is a decaying note seems to hit a threshold...and suddenly drop to another level. While the original was completely smooth in this area. Might be the 2N5089 is too high gain...I dunno. BTW, anyone know something I could tweak to get a little more *clean-up* w/my ax volume? Just always wondering......

Phorhas · March 21, 2005, 06:48:25 AM

OK, I reversed Q2/// boy is this a bad MOFO now! Huge gain, lots overtones, octaves raging... I've found my FUZZ...

I never really enjoyed the regular FF...I guess it wasn't fuzzie eanough for my... now I;m finaly fuzz-happy

Thenks to all of you for both jelping and bringing this pedal under the spot lights

jmusser · March 21, 2005, 07:11:41 AM

I'm glad everyhting went well for Squidsquad. If I remember right, he had a couple originals that got ripped off years ago. I'm sure you're on a nastalgia trip. I still haven't gotten a chance to go back in mine and do a switchable thin mod. I built the Digital Octaver Fuzz, and then spent all day yesterday getting all my stuff out of the giant Tupperware containers and into bins of my organizers I just bought. I really wanted to piddle with stuff, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and get the trash off the bench. The DOF is not the same animal as the JBT, but it does have way huge fuzz and crunch like it.

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The Jordon Boss Tone is a Monster!