question for zachary Vex or Paul Perry of Frostwave

[Mark Hammer]

Second, if one hopes to sell "boutique" pedals through other retailers, whether internet or regular stores, I think it is important to realize how much the product needs to distinguish itself in the midst of a plethora of other pedals.  Go to a place like Musictoyz and the sheer volume of distortion pedals and boosters is staggering.  Personally, I think the only way to make ANY choice under those circumstances is by name or cost because many of the pedals sound ridiculously similar.

You would think...  But in some ways the pedal market is getting similar to the audiophile market. There seems to be an endless demand for endless varieties of this stuff. Every time I think the market is completely saturated, someone else comes out with a slight variation of a theme which becomes the new flavor of the month. Soon it seems like "everyone has to have one".

I think some of the buyers are becoming like "pedal connoiseurs" (affectionally referred to as "cork sniffers" in some circles   ). They hear all kinds of things.  In all honesty, I think psychological aspects of packaging, artwork, "coolness factor", etc influence how a particular product sounds to some people.

Indeed, it IS becoming a bit like the audiophile market in that people are persuaded by all manner of BS that they hear and see in magazines, webfora, and in music stores.  I'm not saying the emperor is completely naked, but there are a whole lot of times the emperor is basically decked out in t-shirt and jeans.  In effect, consumers can often hear what they are told they should be hearing.

The relevance this has to the original posting that started the thread is that under such circumstances, there are no long-term guarantees that your product will remain viable for as long as you'd like.  The "trick" would seem to be to take on a market niche that is impervious to hype and "the next big thing" because it is unique, and does something identifiable and unconfusable with another product.  Again, I will repeat my mantra that if you think you're gonna make a living off of a product line of one or two fuzzboxes and a booster, dream on.  There are far too many overlapping products out there.

[moosapotamus]

Great thread!
alchemist - Thanks for starting it off.
zach & paul - Thanks for the thoughtful and candid responses.

I have a good friend (not in the music biz) who owns/runs a storefront business. He always says one of the biggest things he wished he figured out sooner was the yellow pages publishing cycle and how important it was to get in sync with it and have an ad in there. But, that's a very different kind of business than what's being discussed here.

Looking back, are there any things you guys wish you had learned or done sooner? Any things you would do differently if you were starting up today?

Thanks, again!
~ Charlie

[ESPguitar]

Yeah, and the first thing most musicians do when they try out a new pedal is to turn all the knobs all the way up and see if it makes an insane sound.  Then they'll turn 'em to a more reasonable setting and see if they get a usable sound... at least to sell me it has to be capable of being misused.

hmm.  well then.  i sell 200 fuzz factories per month, and if you turn all the knobs to the right you get no sound.  same as turning all knobs to the left.

so that theory's out the window.  8^)

Do you have people working for you? Maybe a dumb question..

All to left no sound, that's an extra feature :wink:

RB

[Mark Hammer]

Do you have people working for you? Maybe a dumb question..

Yeah, he does.  That's why, lord love him, he fights so damn hard to protect the viability of his products - he KNOWS the people who would be out of a job if he didn't fight on their behalf.

It's not just one guy in a basement with a soldering iron and a Maserati in the driveway.

[puretube]

[object88]

try not to get shot.

Words to live by...  

[ESPguitar]

Do you have people working for you? Maybe a dumb question..

Yeah, he does.  That's why, lord love him, he fights so damn hard to protect the viability of his products - he KNOWS the people who would be out of a job if he didn't fight on their behalf.

It's not just one guy in a basement with a soldering iron and a Maserati in the driveway.

No it's one guy with ten Maseriti's..

:lol:  :wink:

RB

[ESPguitar]

try not to get shot.

Words to live by...  

It is..

[smashinator]

It's not just one guy in a basement with a soldering iron and a Maserati in the driveway.

Personally, when I get to the point when people are saying "so should I buy this Zvex, or this Smashinator-Special?"  I plan to have these guys build me something special and park it in the driveway.  //www.exilecycles.com

:wink:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Not to hijack the thread, sorry!

[mikeb]

just to clarify, I am talking about mass produced pedals, not boutique hand made effects. there is good reason they(boutique) are so expensive.

I see this too often in these forums; somehow 'mass manufactured' pedals get treated differently. The companies that make those pedals have to make a living too, and most of the time they would have shareholders to answer to.

If you are building your own pedals to 'save money', you haven't been reading the forum here long enough.....

Mike

[ESPguitar]

It's not just one guy in a basement with a soldering iron and a Maserati in the driveway.

Personally, when I get to the point when people are saying "so should I buy this Zvex, or this Smashinator-Special?"  I plan to have these guys build me something special and park it in the driveway.  //www.exilecycles.com

:wink:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Not to hijack the thread, sorry!

Hehe....

[puretube]

fellers/gals: don`t forget the R&D expenses in your calculations!!!

(e.g.: weeks of tweaking input cap values, searching for the right opamp..., a.s.o. :? )

(goals also here:
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=31652)

[mojotron]

fellers/gals: don`t forget the R&D expenses in your calculations!!!

(e.g.: weeks of tweaking input cap values, searching for the right opamp..., a.s.o. :? )

And mistakes like buying 300 250V 22uf caps, instead of 25v 22uF caps :oops:  :oops: - just try to use one of those in a hammond!!

[puretube]

or mistakes like using 22µF/25V caps in a HV tube-PS...  :shock:

[Doug_H]

try not to get shot.

Words to live by...  

Yeah, that's an important safety tip no matter what your line of work...

Doug

[Doug_H]

The relevance this has to the original posting that started the thread is that under such circumstances, there are no long-term guarantees that your product will remain viable for as long as you'd like.  The "trick" would seem to be to take on a market niche that is impervious to hype and "the next big thing" because it is unique, and does something identifiable and unconfusable with another product.  Again, I will repeat my mantra that if you think you're gonna make a living off of a product line of one or two fuzzboxes and a booster, dream on.  There are far too many overlapping products out there.

Yeah, I think if you're trying to set the world on fire, buy the Maserati, live the dream of the "make BIG money in electronics!" ads in the backs of Popular Electronics issues in the 70's (that depicted fast cars, fast women,  expensive jewelry, travel, etc...) you have to find a niche that distinguishes you from everyone else that is selling a "genu-wine tube screamer clone". OTOH, I think the good news of the endless onlon layers of demand is that there is room for people to get involved in it as a sideline. Maybe you're just making beer money, or you can buy a new guitar more often, or help with the bills or take a nicer vacation than usual. But IMO if you do anything of any quality at all you should be able to sell something.

Doug

[alchemist]

Just like to say, thank you everybody else for your input on getting started in the business, and I am happy I could come up with questions that answered the same questions others had.


Why a booster?: Probabley a good start-up project, overhead is relatively cheap, design will not be as complex as building a 3-oscillator Ring modulator with a 24-db Lowpass filter, blah blah blah....

Electro-Harmonix started with a booster, at least to my recollection.

As far as "conventional typical design" vs. " bizare, unusual, and intriguing" I bend to the bizarre side, as I have mostly built Modular synthesizers from Blacet and MOTM Kits, In college I worked with a Buchla Modular (a fascinating extreme synthesizer, highly Imagnitive!) I have built Clones for a Number of Local Musicians, but that's not as Interesting as having found a designer who  shares Similair(conceptual ideas) on Effects. I like building music effects, but I am not  a guitarist theremin has been my primary instrument  in the last 7 Years and only very extreme pedals will work with a Theremin.


ANd now that I've told my life Story.....[/quote]

[mikeb]

Why a booster?: Probabley a good start-up project, overhead is relatively cheap, design will not be as complex as building a 3-oscillator Ring modulator with a 24-db Lowpass filter, blah blah blah....

Electro-Harmonix started with a booster, at least to my recollection.

That was a different time and place.

My point was - there's nothing new you can do with a booster. And - I daresay - even a 'new' design will bear a remarkable resemblance to one of the other 20+ boosters currently available. IMHO, it's better to come out with something 'new' that sets you and your company apart from others - come out with a knockout punch, not a threatening look from a distance.  

Mike

[Clipped]

I think some of the buyers are becoming like "pedal connoiseurs" (affectionally referred to as "cork sniffers" in some circles   ). They hear all kinds of things.  In all honesty, I think psychological aspects of packaging, artwork, "coolness factor", etc influence how a particular product sounds to some people.

It's all kind of baffling to me. For one, I don't know where all this disposable income is coming from. I thought working musicians were supposed to be poor???    


Doug

Doug - I believe you should come up with a pedal and call it "The Cork Sniffer" Sounds like a heck of a name to set you apart.... :lol:  :lol:

If not, I wanna put it on a box!

Ok, seriously, some great information in this thread. I have a small business also, but mostly in fixing guitars and selling a few things here and there.  To all you guys that have your own small business, do you do your own taxes or have have them done? And if you have/had someone do it, do you think it benefitted you over doing your own?

Thanks,
Ron

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

[ To all you guys that have your own small business, do you do your own taxes or have have them done? And if you have/had someone do it, do you think it benefitted you over doing your own?

I'm happy having mine done, because tax agents "speak the language".
You probably wouldn't defend yourself in court, right? Same with tax, unfortunately. A tax agent will show you how to keep your bookwork (pretty easy! You don't even need a computer.. in which case, you don't have all those backup problems, just a photocopies).

personally, I havn't made enough money from boxes to pay tax yet.. but, here's hoping!! I made enough to pay my accountant.