Electro Mechanical Effects Delays,Reverbs,Phasors

[Dragonfly]

Where what web sites can answer my questions

well walters, i used the magic of "searching" with google and found the Tel*Ray website, which includes schematics and a forum (with sections on repair, how they work, etc....

heres the site....

http://www.geocities.com/tel_ray/

andy

[Dragonfly]

Where what web sites can answer my questions

btw...you can also find quite a bit of info by looking up the patents that apply to a given device....

heres some to start with....

US Patent number 2,892,898 (Delay Apparatus, filed Feb. 21, 1958, granted June 30, 1959)
US Patent number 3,072,543 (Dielectric Signal Storage Device, filed Oct. 8, 1958, granted Jan. 8, 1963)
US Patent number 3,215,911 (Electrostatic Storage System, filed Sept. 5, 1961, granted Nov. 2, 1965)



hope this helps,
  andy

[walters]

thanks alot dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

thanks alot dragonfly

no problem...i found the patent descriptions of particular interest....

[puretube]

yeah, I lost the name of Lubow, to put it in my patents list.
His oil-can / -disk stuff is about the equivalent to a mechanical BBD...

D. Leslie himself was very eagerly looking for less bigger "sound-motion"
devices than his rotating speakers/baffles, and has come up with rather interesting electro-mechanical thingies (all to be found in the patent office)...

and: don`t forget that harp-players got their WahWah in their hands,
like trumpet players got it in their hat  :wink:
(the high harmonic content of the waveform of these instruments - very sawish - may put the experimentator to thinking, btw...  :wink: )

[Pedro Freitas]

I guess that for mechanical phasing you'd have to get
a real short delay sistem.
Instead of having a spring like in a reverb, you'd use
a long guitar string.
For driver you would use an Ebow and for reader you'd use normal
pickup coil.
Then you need to wiggle the string to get vibrato and mix it with
the dry signal (just like with real reverb tanks).

You can wiggle the string with a foot-operated-bigsby sistem or
with a simple cam-shaft thingie.
Or not...

Pedro

[walters]

thats a good idea Pedro thanks

[walters]

How would the cam shaft work i dont get it ?

[Pedro Freitas]

Really?
Well, don't use an Ebow literaly. Use a reverb tank's driver
coil instead. Or wind up your own.
Imagine that you want to wiggle the bigsby arm automaticaly,
you'll need something motorized to make it go up and down.
With a rotating excentric shaft you could do it.
And then think of something to replace the heavy bigsby,
some other simple contraption.

Pedro

[walters]

1.) yea so u stick a motor on the bigsy to get a vibrato automatically
    what do i do with the reverb coil?

[walters]

1.) are u saying to run my guitar signal through a reverb Driver coil
    that is hooked up to a guitar string with a bigsy that is
    motor driven automatic to get a vibrato out of the string
    and the other end of the guitar string will be a reverb recovery
    coil?      

2.) so just take out the Spring in my reverb tank and put a guitar
     string in there with a bigsy Arm making the string get a
    vibrato by the camshaft motor driven automatic mechanism
    and mix it with a Dry signal?

[R.G.]

1.) are u saying to run my guitar signal through a reverb Driver coil
that is hooked up to a guitar string with a bigsy that is
motor driven automatic to get a vibrato out of the string
and the other end of the guitar string will be a reverb recovery
coil?

2.) so just take out the Spring in my reverb tank and put a guitar
string in there with a bigsy Arm making the string get a
vibrato by the camshaft motor driven automatic mechanism
and mix it with a Dry signal?

Ahhh!! walters, you're a genius. That's exactly right!! It's the first time I've ever seen anything like that. Are you going to patent it?

[SeanCostello]

Electromechanical Pitch Shifter:

Create a pickup that has a single central magnet, and several rows of pole pieces, arranged along the long part of a cylinder. The cylinder has 4 or more Strat-style pickups along its axis, but smoothly recessed into the cylinder, and with a single magnet. Mount the pickup into a guitar, and start rotating it. As the pickups move parallel to the guitar string, they will cause the perceived pitch of the output signal to change. As one set of pole pieces rotates away from the string, another rotates towards it, producing a natural crossfading.

Electromechanical Chorus:

Mount 2 of the above pickups on a guitar, moving in opposite directions.

I'm calling the patent office RIGHT NOW. My invention will go down in history with the Leslie. Or maybe the, uh, Gizmotron.

Another idea I had a while back, that is somewhat less stupid: Create a "barberpole phaser" using a mechanical barber pole as a light source, and surrond the thing with strategically place photo cells. The photo cells would control phase shift circuits, or possibly bandpass filters (a la Korg PS-3100 Resonators), in addition to controlling the amplitude of the filters/phase shift circuits. The barber pole itself would probably have some weird stripe patterns, as you basically want a saw sweep for the filters, but a triangle/sine for the amplitudes.

If you use a tape loop, you could have a rotary head pitch shifter. I wouldn't want to make this, but it can be done. Or, have a few tape heads moving back and forth; one of the patents in the Dimension D thread references this.

Sean Costello

[markphaser]

Electromechanical patents for guitar effects? its hard to find the patent numbers but there must be alot of invertions of electromechanical phasers,chorus,pitch shifters,delays,flangers just finding the patent numbers is the hard part but i know
there is alot of electromechanical effects in the office like oil can delays based on phasers,flangers

[puretube]

Electromechanical Chorus:
Mount 2 of the above pickups on a guitar, moving in opposite directions.
I'm calling the patent office RIGHT NOW. My invention will go down in history with the Leslie. Or maybe the, uh, Gizmotron.

Sean - don`t hurry - you may have missed Fig.20 + description on p.18, line 55... in Hanert`s (recently mentioned here...) patent file from  `51.

[SeanCostello]

Electromechanical Chorus:
Mount 2 of the above pickups on a guitar, moving in opposite directions.
I'm calling the patent office RIGHT NOW. My invention will go down in history with the Leslie. Or maybe the, uh, Gizmotron.

Sean - don`t hurry - you may have missed Fig.20 + description on p.18, line 55... in Hanert`s (recently mentioned here...) patent file from  `51.

This would cover triangle wave modulation of the pickups, where the pickups rotated towards each other, then away from each other. Such pickup position modulation would be useful, as the pickups would not need to be rotary. Plain old pickups would do, as long as they were mounted on some apparatus that could move them back and forth along the length of the string.

My idea is a rotary pickup version of the Roland crossfading pitch shifter chorus patent you listed the other day. I am pretty sure that I could only get chorusing out of the pickups. To get more significant pitch shift, you would need to either have rotating pickups of ENORMOUS diameter, or pickups rotating so fast as to produce audio rate artifacts (you need to keep the windowing at 10 Hz or below in a pitch shifter for it to sound decent, unless you sync the windowing to the pitch of the input).

Another electromechanical idea: Using the oil can echo generators, have a pickup brush that makes contact with the drum for a fair amount of the drums diameter. By shaping the contact area of the brush, you might be able to obtain gated reverb effects. Or, have the brush slosh back and forth, like that thing inside of a car wash, to get chorus effects. Not sure if this would work, but I would like to think it would.

Sean Costello

[puretube]

How about a mechanical Stereo Bi-Phase/Bi-Chorus/BiRoTator
with two independantly rotating baffles:
1 on front, and 1on the back of a (special) speaker-cab?
(mono-in to stereo-out...)

[Gladmarr]

Oh yeah!  Thanks for bringing one of the Walters threads back from the dustbin!  That was some entertaining stuff.  I wonder what happened to that guy?  He's probably keeping the patent office guys busy still!   

[frank_p]

Oh yeah!  Thanks for bringing one of the Walters threads back from the dustbin!  That was some entertaining stuff.  I wonder what happened to that guy?  He's probably keeping the patent office guys busy still!   

Finally something I can understand.
There is probably too much delay on his line.
Maybe he could be from an other era. 
No ?



0.023 sec. hmm... HURRY!  Where are my acoustic class notes !!!

[puretube]

Oh yeah!  Thanks for bringing one of the Walters threads back from the dustbin!  That was some entertaining stuff.  I wonder what happened to that guy?  He's probably keeping the patent office guys busy still!   

Well, I had that idea of saving 1 loudspeaker and yet having dual modulation,
and searched for an already existing thread for this kind of topic...

BTW: the topicstarter is still active on HC,
and I wish he were at an other "...forum"