Why Ge transistors when there is LED

[ibanezts808]

I was reading on a previous topic that LEDs make a tube like clipping.  So why do peoplego through the trouble to find/use germanium transistos when they could simply use LEDs?  I know that this will probably have a simple answer, I'm just wondering if there is a huge difference, and if not, why the Ge preference.

[MartyMart]

Well the two are totally different.
The Ge transistors in a "Fuzz Face" circuit provide that warm "mushy"
fuzz that we all love ... nothing else can do this as well, even using Si transistors isnt the same.
LED's in this type of circuit just wouldn't work or sound "right"  

Marty.

[nelson]

if we all stuck on one sound, the sound of LED's for example, This hobby would be a very short lived one indeed.

[ibanezts808]

I know there is a difference, but how big is the difference between the tubish sound of an LED and the tubish sound of a Ge transistor?  I'm not trying to make a point, I'm merely learning.

[MartyMart]

I know there is a difference, but how big is the difference between the tubish sound of an LED and the tubish sound of a Ge transistor?  I'm not trying to make a point, I'm merely learning.

Its hard to explain and you will get 10 different answers from ten people!
A Ge transistor doesn't sound "tubey" to me, its a different kind of
breakup of the gtr signal, but when you use it to "drive" a tube amp, then
you get that noise, from real tubes along with the "fuzz" character also.
An op-amp based OD with LED's will have a different "basic" tone/sound
but those LED's (to my ears) break up in a "tube" type way.
Its like a "hollow octave/crunch" sound .... again hard to explain !!
I hope that helps some ?

Marty.

[The Tone God]

People don't claim or get all fanatical about Ge because they sound like tubes. Ge is popular because in many older transistor circuits they don't sound as harsh as Si.

As for LEDs or anything for that matter making tube sound, I say if you want tube sound use tubes and use them properly. That simple.

Andrew

[petemoore]

Tubey'...funny word, or used in various ways that retain only a certain amount of appropriateness.
 Tubes sound like tubes, and Digital Sounds like tubes...at least the Beh amp I tried did...sounded just like a clean tube amp...as far as tube distortion..or overdriven tubes even...thats another matter. A digital amp is a completely different kind of horse.
 I don't know if LED in a certain given SP could convince me in a blind A/B test that it sounds 'like a tube'...what kind of tube...intertube? ...[sorry I had to].
 Just to be arbitrary choose a circuit that could use Ge's and LED's as clipping diodes...and the sound is quite noticably very different, easily detected in a blind test.
 This is similar to discussions of what's the difference between Fuzz and OD.
 It is such a wierd thing to try to put the myriad of things that influence say an LED to sound crunchy, tubey or otherwise. First it needs a circuit to be in to begin to sound even 'LED-ish'...what that circuit is and how it's tuned will have a direct influnce on how much of the signal the LED[s is/are clipping...
 I've tried LED's with other LED's, back to back with an Si or two seriesed Si's...everything just about inbetween too...
 I like the sound of my GE FF..

[Satch12879]

Well, you can't add gain with LEDs now can you?

[MartyMart]

Well, you can't add gain with LEDs now can you?

Ahem .... YES  
As far as pure "distortion" no,  but volume output a big YES !!
Try swopping a diode or two for an LED or two and check it out ...
How about the Keeley DS-1 ? louder and wilder .

Marty.

[JimRayden]

Hmm, I've been thinking of changing a diode (or both) in my tube screamer to a LED. Would that result the circuit being more of a booster than an overdrive box? Would it increase the output and take off sone of the clipping?

If so, that's cool. I'll put in a switch to switch between diodes and LED's.

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Jimbo

[Doug_H]

What is this obsession with "tube like clipping"?!?

Nothing "tubey" sounding about a Ge transistor or an LED to my ears. They both have distinct sounds people happen to like, that's all.

Ge xsistors are active devices, LEDs are passive, used in completely different ways for clipping in these kinds of circuits. Why would you think one was a substitute for the other? Look at a fuzz face schem and you tell me how you would sub LEDs for Ge transistors. (?!?!?)

Doug

[MartyMart]

What is this obsession with "tube like clipping"?!?

Nothing "tubey" sounding about a Ge transistor or an LED to my ears. They both have distinct sounds people happen to like, that's all.

Ge xsistors are active devices, LEDs are passive, used in completely different ways for clipping in these kinds of circuits. Why would you think one was a substitute for the other? Look at a fuzz face schem and you tell me how you would sub LEDs for Ge transistors. (?!?!?)

Doug

Doug,
      of course "I" know they are miles from being similar, I was just
trying to point out to the poster, what "sound" difference there is and I
do think LED's in an op-amp distortion circuit can sound a bit "tube" like
in the way they break up

Marty.

[ibanezts808]

wow, I didn't want the thread to turn into a flaming thread, lol.  I just wanted to know what the sound differences were.

[JimRayden]

What is this obsession with "tube like clipping"?!?

Nothing "tubey" sounding about a Ge transistor or an LED to my ears. They both have distinct sounds people happen to like, that's all.

Ge xsistors are active devices, LEDs are passive, used in completely different ways for clipping in these kinds of circuits. Why would you think one was a substitute for the other? Look at a fuzz face schem and you tell me how you would sub LEDs for Ge transistors. (?!?!?)

Doug

Umm... LED is a diode. And you can use one half of a transistor as a diode. At least it's so with a Si transistor. Isn't it the same with a Ge one?

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Jimbo

[puretube]

yes - and even a triode (tube) can be wired as a diode...

BUT: you can`t turn a Ge-diode (or Si, or LED) into an (amplifying) transistor....

[JimRayden]

BUT: you can`t turn a Ge-diode (or Si, or LED) into an (amplifying) transistor....

I'm just learning - what is the reason of that?

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Jimbo

[puretube]

...the missing lead...

[JimRayden]

Umm, actually you put the diodes back to back and use the outer leads and the inner lead (the two other ones connected) is the third...

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Jimbo

[puretube]

pahh - still not a glowing tube...

[JimRayden]

Yes, I realise that all you need for life, is tubes. But would it work?

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Jimbo