Phase 90 vs. Phase 45 question for those who have tried both

[vanessa]

I have never used a Phase 45. I hear they stopped making them a long time ago. I have read several articles about how lots of players love them over the Phase 90 because of their more subtle "less pronounced" phase compared to the 90.

My question having never heard the Phase 45; could the Phase 45 tone be achieved on a Phase 90 by placing a blend control in the circuit allowing you to blend in more dry signal to make a less pronounced phase effect?

Or does the Phase 45 just have a totally different vibe to it?

If that's it, it would seem that you could have the best of both worlds building a Phase 90 with this type of mod.

If someone who has made or owns both could give me their opinion that would be really great.

[petemoore]

Good question, I have a 6 stage phaser I was thinking of 45ing...or something, as it is it ticks [etc.]
 I think it's as simple as tapping off two stages, or multiples of 2. ie afaik there are no 3 or 5 stage phasers.
 Phase 45
 http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=12
 Phase 90
 http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=42
 At any rate I'm intending to build another phase 45, I have the matched Jfets there's something to that tone...I just love that.
 I'll go look at these schems for a while...someone hopefully will chime in...

[R.G.]

The phase 45 has less JFET distortion in it's phasing as well as having less of it than the P90.

The p45 uses resistor linearizing on its JFETs. The P90 does not. Significant difference in tone for anything except single coil guitars.

[vanessa]

The phase 45 has less JFET distortion in it's phasing as well as having less of it than the P90.

The p45 uses resistor linearizing on its JFETs. The P90 does not. Significant difference in tone for anything except single coil guitars.

I'm very interested in your last statement R.G... This may be a tall order, but when you speak of resistor linearizing on the p45 having a significant difference on tone what exactly are the tone differences? And why would single coils not be affected?

I can see where the JFET distortion can come into play. Also the increase in gain of the effect itself as a result of the added JFETs?

[petemoore]

The Jfets, 1 per phase stage, control the sweep of the stages.
 Less noise..I'd guess that means clearer also.
 ...the single coil part of the statement probably means the 45 distorts less with higher input levels...
 Theres' a ph45 veroboard layout available now !!!
 Layouts Gallery / Torchy's Layouts
 Thanks Torchy !!!

[bwanasonic]

I would say it is indeed a totally different *vibe*. I really like the DOD 201, which is practically identical to the Phase 45. The reissue does differ soundwise from the *vintage* one, but is still cool, especially after the so-called *uni-vibe* cap mod (see links in the header of this page). It does a nice watery faux-leslie effect at higher speeds, as well as a decent uni-vibe impersonation.

Kerry M

[MartyMart]

I've owned both, still have my "very old" script '90 and now have a DIY
Phase45/Univibe mod version  - THANK YOU TORCHY !
The reason I bought 45's some time ago, was because I was told that
they had a "Univibe" quality to them !
I guess its all in  the name, though technically its not "half" a Phase 90
circuit - thats the effect you get, less depth/intensity and much "clearer"
in use, its quite a "special" sound IMHO.
Go and build one, you WON'T be dissapointed at all !!!

Just my thoughts,

Marty.

[Eb7+9]

... you can try making the phasing in the 90 lighter by disconnecting the regen resistor (22k) between the last stage and the input of the second ... or replacing it by a 100k trimpot and setting to taste ...

.. otherwise you can add two additional 45-type stages to the 45 to make yourself a 4-stager with the linearization built-in ... same control network - maybe use a rotary switch at the output of stages 2,3 and 4 for selecting varying amounts of thickness ...

[Paul Marossy]

I dig my DIY Phase 45. It has a distinctive sound.  

[Ed G.]

I would say it is indeed a totally different *vibe*. I really like the DOD 201, which is practically identical to the Phase 45. The reissue does differ soundwise from the *vintage* one, but is still cool, especially after the so-called *uni-vibe* cap mod (see links in the header of this page). It does a nice watery faux-leslie effect at higher speeds, as well as a decent uni-vibe impersonation.

Kerry M

Could you compare the Phase 45 sound to the DOD Phasor 201? I'm going to build one of them, not sure which one. I've heard the 45 and like it a lot. The circuit is the same for both pedals, but the component values are pretty different, so I would think there should be a distinctive difference in sound.

[vanessa]

So I'm guessing that from what I'm hearing that if I did put a blend (dry mix) control on a phase 90 I might not get the exact phase 45 tone but very similar?



:roll:

[bwanasonic]

Could you compare the Phase 45 sound to the DOD Phasor 201?

I don't have a P45 to A/B the 201 to. Even the two 201s that I have (vintage grey, and RI blue) sound different from each other, and vary in max. speed. I modded the reissue's caps and increased the max speed. That's the one I mostly use. I'd be curious in A/B ing myself.

As for the Phase 90, I can only go on my memories (used one for years). But I would describe it as more of a *swoosh* sound, and the P45/201 as more of a *swirl*.  
I think a blend knob would just give you watered down *swoosh*, not swirl.

Kerry M

[vanessa]

I got a chance to listen to a few samples of the Phase 45 and A/B'd it against the P90. I hear that swirl vs. the swoosh. It sounds like the effect is more pronounced on the P90. I'm going to try my luck at a blend control and see were it takes me.

I might even breadboard both having the P90 with a blend control and see how close I can get it to sound like the P45. I let you all know how it turns out either way.

Thank you!

[Paul Marossy]

Vanessa-

I woud be interested to hear the result of that!

[Torchy]

This is a Phase45 with a very different "vibe" to it

[Roberto]

I have some samples:

Phase 90 Script logo:
http://www.thundertomate.com/varios/P90Script.mp3

Phase 90 Block logo:
http://www.thundertomate.com/varios/P90Block.mp3

Phase 45 (home made, with blend pot):
http://www.thundertomate.com/WarmSlow.mp3
http://www.thundertomate.com/semivibrato.mp3

[Khas Evets]

Now I want both! Great samples, Roberto. They really highlight the differences.

It would interesting to hear a four-stage P45 vs. a P90 and/or a tapped two-stage P90 vs. a P45. It's hard to isolate the differences between # of stages and resistor linearizing.