OT? {Speakers}

[petemoore]

Buy better speakers when you can.
 Tube amps work like tube amps, and I recommend them for guitarists.
 Cabinet, Cables, Pickups...everything 'else' in the chain...
 Get to know amps, and speakers...this takes time.
 I generally use this order when 'sorting out' the goods and bads of a given setup...starts at speaker, ends at source.
 Changing any one of these links in the setup chain can make your Fuzz Box sound COMpletely Different, anything from 'better', to 'not at all'.
   I typed this because I used to think a little box could make the sound from a cheepo speaker be...expensive sounding...and...I used to spend  on them little boxes...then I discovered the 'speaker thing'...now, the manuals and I agree, building a system as a chain, starting at one end and checking every link along the length is the ....way...MRHV..

[JimRayden]

Umm... duh.

Actually, I recently discovered that too. I decided to take the chance and buy myself a Greenback. Oh boy was that a right decision! It gave my crappy solid state Vermona another life. I'm currently working on a tube amp to join the solid state stuff. And lots of stompboxes to improve it even further. And I'm definately going to replace or rewound the pickups on my beauty.

I guess the moral is, don't consentrate on the boxes and count on them to do all the magic. See your rig as a whole, with some links strong and some that need improving.

w00t for greenbacks

----------
Jimbo

[sonic66]

What speaker characteristics would be good for acoustic guitar? Would the same sort of speaker be good for bass. I'm thinking of getting a eminance delta pro 12, as a replacement for a peavey scorpion. I have eminance beta 12's in a silverface twin reverb and i like them alot. What are the key characteristics to look in the response for in speakers for electic  guitar / bass  compaired to other instruments ( without actually having the speaker to test / play around with) ?

Has anyone found a good site about choosing speaker ?

[sonic66]

http://www.electrosound.com/speaker_facts.htm

[petemoore]

Other than you 'get what you pay for'...which can itself be a misnomer...
 TH'ey are getting better at making 15s and 18's sound 'llike' 10's or 12's,
 [IMO/IME] That said, anything bigger than 12'' cone speaker is for Bass Drum...Bass Guitar...or packing more watt handling or volume output per small' sized cabinet...better* bass response can be had using 10''ers than 15''ers...I gathered this from numerous a/b testing and JBL manual texts.
  I have played through 15's that get decent high end response, and fairly 'rich' mids sound...I prefer 12's for guitar...
 There are so many types of speakers, it is a misnomer to just say...15's lack mids/highs...maybe the 'sound of 15's' is what works for guitar...it's a different sound.
 One reason I think we see 15's used in PA is for marketing purposes, they can be made to handle large loads, and don't blow as easy as 12's when you pump big bass watts [bass drum into PA tends to whip 1 x12, and 2x12's is more expensive to produce, and requires a larger cabinet].
 Working with both 'good' speakers, I'd prefer a 2x12 anyday over a 1x15...apples and oranges... A/B testing tells the tales...
 If you're intending to reproduce high amplitude LOW Bass, 15's and 18's are the ticket, but...you should know what you're doing by the time you get to that...I'd recommend full range speakers for guitar, keyboard, vocals...even bass...if the volume levels don't exceed what they 'want' to do.
 According to JBL Manuals...10''ers produce more accurate bass response than their 15'', at a slightly lower volume level at max...comparing a 4x10 bass cab to same size cab with a 15 or 18...no comparison...I'll take the 4x10'' sound...but if you're rolling off highs and want a big 'thwomp' sound...15's maybe what you needfor that.
 So...to way oversimplify a highly variable topic...stick with 'high quality' 10's and 12's...add more of them when you want them to do more than they 'want' to do and you can't miss...
 IMO The 4x12 cabinet is the best design ever....columns are cool cause they get the horn up high, but are rediculously 'tippy' and harder to transport...but if a 4x12 isn't doesn't do what you want it to...you're probably getting into highs or high amplitude bass, and should adress that frequency response range separately...[big bass reflex cabs...HF Drivers and horns...etc]

[robotboy]

I bought a Rivera Knucklehead 100-watt tube amp a few years back. When I got it, I was really disappointed that it didn't sound as good as everybody had made it out to be, and I wondered what could be wrong. I was using an ancient Peavey 4x12 cab with moldy black widow speakers. I decided to break the bank and upgrade my cab as well. I bought a brand new Avatar 4x12 loaded with Celestion Vintage 30s. That was the single best sounding gear upgrade I've ever done. The amp came alive and sounded even better than I had expected it to. After that I proceeded to tweak the rest of my rig: mullard 12ax7s, a Les Paul Jr. w/ P-90's, monster cables, etc; however, no single thing came close to the impact of having a great set of speakers. Anyhoo, +1 to greenbacks, vintage 30's, etc... good speakers are fundamental to good tone.

[petemoore]

I like them 'ol 4x12's, having seen super beat, water damaged, parts of the front missing ...etc. 30 yr old GB Celestion 25w loaded cabs that put out amazing amounts of sound, and new ones that do about the same...they' say magazine article notes that newer speakers, because the suspension structure 'breaks in and loosens' may sound 'tighter' [exp in the low end/] than old speakers.
 Not that old speakers are recommended, no after 30 or so years, the stuff starts getting into higher failure rates, [expecially when run at very high amplitude etc.] drifting ohmages I noted on a very old Vox loaded with 'Bulldogs'?...I doubt there was such mismatched ohmages from one speaker to the next on the Beatle 4x12 when it was shipped.
 I should note one of Bills 4x12 GB celestions little 'flexi wires' [from the wire tab to the cone] broke, and was able to be patched.
 Reads on the 'Celestion Original Specification Marshall Greenback Specialist Guitarist Speaker' [J Marshall called out the specs for celestion to produce speakers for him early on...the very popular GB] is cool, the basis' of the Marshall Sound...funny though, I find them slightly different, very much the same though and comparable to the Jensens found in early Fenders.
 The Vintage 30's are also interesting to read about, apparently Townshend and others desired more output from a 4x12 cab...[go figure..lol] so the '30's era began just a little later than the GB's. These speakers 'reportedly' cause a 50w head to sound like 100w head on a 4x12...switching from GB's to V30's.
 SO I'm suggesting and tempted to try 2x12'' 'slightly oversized/oversized cabinet loaded with V30's. It also is said they sound more aggressive, but don't get as mellow as the GB's....or something like that. Marshall Site has reads...or was it in a Marshall Brochure...hmmm..
 At any rate I use these two types, the GB, and the V30 [and mention Jensens] and speakers 'like them' as preferable IMC for guitar use.
 75w Celestions is a different sound altogether, I had 2x 4x12'' [8 speakers] 75watters, and ... on the other side, 412 GB And 412 Vox Bulldogs...Comparing them...VOX Bulldogs have a really cool voice, closer to similar to the GB's...[I priced Vox speakers...300 a pop...whew]...the GB's can be had for less than 100, and the 30's seem would be a great choice for those who desire more 'drive' and loudness to the sound...I think two of them could 'carry' in a Rock Band mix [And sound good]...no sweat.

[petemoore]

Then there's always the 'newer' Eminence Speakers, which I had some in my Hot Rod Deville, and have gained a great rep because of good tone.

[aron]

What eminence model is this?

[sonic66]

Just put in some plessey C12P's  (Rola - some connection with celestion ) in a fairly sturdy closed back 2 x12 box.  Tested it with the peavey and a behringer ultrabass and they sound pretty good. Don't know how hard i can drive them - not sure what they are able to handle. my be 30 watt each?

A  while back i bought a gp-20 amp factory an a whim cause it was  a cheep.
Thought  i could do some ' acoustic' gigs with my electric but was quit disapointed with the sound.
When i put this int the power amp in of the peavey or the fx return (no driect input ) to the Beheringer, It sounded not bad
- still the only sound really liked were the blackface and tweed settings, of couse i turned the speaker emulators off.
A  bit cold or lifeless compaired to my twin

I'm hoping to build a tube preamp or A ROG pedal with high out put , with an ROG tone mender so i could use,
probably the Ultrabass as a back up amp orwhen i'm playing bass in one band and guitar in another gigging on the same nite.