truth about .22uf Tropical Fish Caps in a Wah??

[analog kid]

I have been customizing and tweaking on my Vox and Thomas Organ wahs for the last year or more trying to discover the truth to all the myths and facts about what affects what and what really sounds best. I think I have a pretty good sounding wah due to tweaking of the input, Q, mids and Bass resistors... Inductor, sweep cap AND the matching of the transistors, BUT the one component I"m not sure of (and if I could get any MORE out the wah by messing with it) are the .22 caps.
I haven't thought that they would have near as much affect on the tone/sweep of the wah as the other parts but so many people seem to be after the Tropical Fish .22uf's that were used back then.
Does anyone really know if they do impact on the quality of the wah as opposed to using most ANY modern Mettalized Polyester Film caps(which IS what they wree RIGHT?)  ? ? I mean if NOT then I just don't get it.. why it would be worth shelling out several dollars apiece for each NOS cap!! Other than for looks OR to actually be replacing one the caps on an original board that used them.
SO Does anyone know the truth or have experience on this issue? And what the T.F. 's actual material was ? (Polyester film, Metallized Poly,etc..)
It would only be worth spending $$$ to get them IF IT REALLY impacts tone and sweep, in my Opinion.
Also , anyone have luck with different low/medium gain Transistors other than just BC109b and c?? (2N4401, 3904's etc...) Id be interesting in knowing. I usually use a pair of BC108, 109b or c's with gains between 300-500. This seems to mellow out and fatten the wah tone for the better compared to the harsh MPS18's that are stock!

[The Tone God]

SO Does anyone know the truth or have experience on this issue?

Sometimes you learn more to search for the truth then to ask for it.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=29129

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=14972

Search criteria used: tropical fish

"Search for all terms" option selected.

Andrew

[Doug_H]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=29129&highlight=tropical+fish+caps

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=25809&highlight=tropical+fish+caps

http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=14972&highlight=tropical+fish+caps

EDIT: I guess Tone God beat me to it...  Yes, "search" is our friend.

Doug

[Ed G.]

I don't think anything has had as profound an impact on the sound of my wah, including inductor changes, as changing the transistors. Search the archives for wah transistors and a recent thread should have good info. I think the change in tone from standard polyester caps to the tropical fish types would be minimal, and it even might not be better.
Polystyrene, on the other hand, is a different matter. They were on the original wahs and at least in distortion circuits (and in amp circuits) I hear a difference with styrene. Not sure if they make a big difference in wah circuits but they are readily available from mouser.

[Pedal love]

I haven't thought that they would have near as much affect on the tone/sweep of the wah as the other parts but so many people seem to be after the Tropical Fish .22uf's that were used back then.

People see them in early wah pedals and want them. Its the same with BC109B transistors. No mystery here.pl

[jabez]

I have Tropical fish in mine and did all the mods there is to do. I did each mod seperatly as I went and I didn't hear any difference that I can tell when installing the tropical fish caps. Heard a difference in the Polystyrene caps I replaced the .01uf caps with. Clearer tone. The main difference in the Bc109B mod was probably just the the lower gain and there is a clearer defined tone with them but this may be due to the lower gain also. I use a BC109B in Q1 & a BC109 in Q2 which sounds better to me & I use a 330ohm resistor in the gain & bass spot & that brings it up to a good spot in the gain. I use a 56k in the volume but I don't like my wah to get louder when turned on but to stay close to the same volume. I control my volume with the volume knob on my guitar. Something you might like is to use a higher value cap in the C1 spot. Gives it a thicker tone with more bass. Start with a .015uf and you can go pretty high even up to a .22uf.

A little trick when it comes to useing a wah is like the way Hendrix did. When he would turn on his wah and wanted it to be basser or thicker sounding he would just turn his tone knob on his guitar down to give it more bottom end. Then you could have it normal or with more bass just by turning down your tone knob. Simple but works very well. I un-did my sweep mod & C1 mod & just run .01uf's in both of them & work my wah this way. There is a art to using a wah. I doubt if any of us could use the same exact wah Hendrix used and make it sound as good as he did.