Etching boxes

[formerMember1]

thanks Joe for your input. And yes they look awesome!!
really unique

Maybe i will just label the box with a Sharpie and etch, that would be easier than PNP, also since i am leaving my pedals bare aluminum, (i don't really mind if my RM and Tuner mute aren't painted)  by the way, i have sharpies and a Etch resist pen from Mouser.  I think they are the same thing except, on the etch resist pen it says "Dries Imediately"


ohyeah one more Q:

I tried Radio Shack in my area but they don't carry etching solution unless you buy a kit for like $15.00  Anywhere else i could get it?(maybe electronic surplus store)?

[Joe Kramer]

Hi formerMember1.  Thanks!

Sharpies and "etch resist" pens are basically the same.  Here's a hint that will save you some failed experiments: after you do your Sharpie lettering, let your artwork dry at least over night, but preferably for a few days.  Even better, let the ink cure in sunlight.  Since it is essentially lacquer, the UV rays help harden it.  This make the resist a lot more "resistive" of the ferric.

As far a ferric goes, it used to be available by the gallon through Mouser, but maybe no more.  

Joe

[formerMember1]

Cool man, thanks!! :wink:

[formerMember1]

Hey Joe,  :lol:  (sorry i had to :wink: )

If i "draw" my labels on the box with a sharpie, and etch,
Will that leave the labeling higher then the rest of the pedal?  
(In other words the labels will be the opposite of engraved. )

Also should i tape off the top of the pedal except like a "square block" around the labeling that way i won't have to sand so much "black" off.  Do i sand the "black" off or clean it off?  Is it really really long to sand the "black" off?

thanks again Joe I appreciate your posts.

[Joe Kramer]

Hey Joe,  :lol:  (sorry i had to :wink: )

Going down to shoot my ole lady, caught her messin round with another man. . . .

If i "draw" my labels on the box with a sharpie, and etch,
Will that leave the labeling higher then the rest of the pedal?  
(In other words the labels will be the opposite of engraved. )

Right.  Same as Soggybag's.  Whatever's blacked out resists the etchant and ends up raised; whatever's plain metal gets etched and ends up recessed.

Also should i tape off the top of the pedal except like a "square block" around the labeling that way i won't have to sand so much "black" off.  Do i sand the "black" off or clean it off?  Is it really really long to sand the "black" off?

I usually didn't bother taping off the sides, just left them plain metal.  That way they do get some etching but I figured it would look better (in a rough-hewn way)  than an attempt at a clean edge that wasn't completely clean.  The thing to do is keep experimenting until you get what you have in mind.  Come to think of it, I had a junk Hammond box with about 350 holes in it that I used first for practice.

After you etch, the Sharpie usually comes right off with steel wool and water, no problem.  The only time you'll have to put elbow grease into it is if you want a really polished look, or if you paint and then rub the paint out.  That can be hard work.  Otherwise, if you get a nice deep etch, you'll probably be set to go with only a little post-etching clean up.

Joe

[formerMember1]

thanks Joe

[soggybag]

I posted a short picture tutorial on ecthing boxes at my site.

[joegagan]

soggy, that is beautiful work. congrats.

joe k, your pedals look awesome as well!

thanks to all who made this thread, nice!

[Joe Kramer]

Soggy: Nice rundown of your etching process, and your artwork is topnotch!

Joe G: Thanks so much for your kind words!

Regards,
Joe

[MetalGod]

I tried etching boxes a couple of years back and I got lots of nasty fumes and the top of the box was all pitted. It was a brushed-aluminium box from Maplins (Radio Shack to those of you in the US).  I'm gonna have to try this again as those pictures show it CAN be done and looks great with a little practice.

[soggybag]

I find the quality depends on a few factors.

Strength of the acid
Time spent in the bath
How smooth the surface is

The strength of the acid is reduced after each use. I find I get a better etch in a weaker solution. But the etch takes longer.
PNP works pretty well as a resist. But it tends to have little pinholes in it. Which really show up in a strong etch. To get the best results with PNP the surface of the box needs to be sanded down as smooth as possible. I have been working my way up to a 600 grit finish. This seems to work well.

I find it hard to get rid of the small pinholes left by the imperfections in the PNP. Maybe there is a more reliable resist? If you were set up to do silk screen you could silk screen the resist on.

[formerMember1]

yeah i gotta try it again too then becuase a couple weeks ago i tried it.  I used a sharpie marker and a etchresist pen, just too try both.  I just scribbled some words/ symbols on a extra hammond lid to a 1590B aluminum box.  When i put the lid in the etching solution(Radio Shack)  It just smoked, bubbled smelled bad, smoked again, then turned the lid black and rusty looking, and etching solution turned black and grey and bubbley.   
I left the lid in for about a minute and thought the process wasn't working so i removed the lid and doused with fresh water.  all my sharpie and etchresist "markings" were gone.  And the screw holes in the lid were deformed.


I had cleaned the lid really well, and sanded it with 200 grit than 400grit wet/dry paper.(dry) cleaned with bon ami, and antibacterial dish detergant.

oh well, glad it worked for you guys, 

Anybody know what i did wrong? 

[soggybag]

formerMember1: I have trouble getting the sharpy to resist the acid. It seems like they tell you this one works, but it never works for me, even when I etch PCBs. someone on this thread suggested leaving the sharpy out in the sun to make sure it is really dry. I think they also suggested letting it dry over night.

I find I like the etchant better after I have used it a few times. I did some etching in college and there was always several baths of acid each of different strengths. I'm not sure how to dilute ferric chloride. But a diluted solution seems to work better for me.

[Joe Kramer]

I suggested letting the Sharpie dry at least overnight, or better yet leaving it in the sun.  Because Sharpie is basically lacquer, the sun's UV rays cause it to harden and cure.  Otherwise, it will just burn away as soon as the ferric heats up the metal.

The thing about using Sharpie is that it has to be pretty thick--thick enough that it's almost raised like paint.  This takes going over the image several times.  If you can see a glint of the metal underneath the ink, it's probably not thick enough.

Also, multiple dips seemed to work well for me.  I would hold the edge of the box (wearing gloves and goggles), and swirl it around face down in the etchant.  When I could feel it begin to get warm, I took it out for a minute until it cooled.  I found usually about five of these dips gave a pretty deep, clean etch.

As far as taming the ferric a little, you can throw a couple of pennies in the solution until they corrode away before you do your first etch with it.

Soggy: I once talked with a guy who was doing small runs of very large intricate circuit boards, and he used a silk screening rig and enamel paint.  He said they were the cleanest circuit boards he'd ever seen, bar none.  For more than a one-sy two-sy run, silkscreen would seem a good way to go

Joe

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[formerMember1]

that would explain it then, since i only wrote on it with sharpie about 10 minutes before i tried the etching.  Also the etching was full strength, and also i only put two layers of sharpie on. 

thanks, will try it again, maybe this time i will use pnp, or maybe sharpie, don't know yet though.

[trjones1]

As far as alternatives to using PNP to transfer the image, there is also the Staples picture paper you can use.  I tried using PNP several times and the transfer never worked very well, no matter how smooth I thought I had sanded the box.  The Staples picture paper is much more forgiving in terms of having a less than perfectly smooth box.  The only thing I ran into is that using the picture paper, with fine lines or artwork you have to go over it with a pin to scratch off the thin layer of paper that sticks, or else those sections won't etch, even though they are not covered by toner.

I also used a Q-Tip to apply the ferric chloride which cuts down on the fumes, but takes a lot longer.  It took me about 3-4 hours to get a moderately deep etch.  If you're going to try doing this, then sit down, pop the Godfather in the DVD, have a beer or twelve, and be patient as you apply the etchant.  I had tried dipping it in the bath, which seemed to go much faster, but I wouldn't recommend it if you have already drilled holes in the enclosure.

[R.G.]

Here's a variation that may lend itself to easier operations.

Take a Hammond box. Cut the top out, leaving room at the corners to drill and tap holes for 4-40 screws (or M2...). Leave enough flat top to hold...

the top plate you make from a separate piece of aluminum. This aluminum piece is flat, rounded corners, and is drilled for your controls and the mounting screws.

When the top plate is mechanically right, sand and finish the good side. Mask the part of the good side your're going to etch. Spray the whole back side and edges with lacquer.
Let dry.  Remove masking.

Now do your toner transfer resist on the good side open area. Touch up with sharpie, lacquer, etc. Let dry.

Etch the panel. Clean with lacquer thinner.

Messed up? Toss away the bum top panel for another one.

[Joe Kramer]

On mess-ups it's also very feasible to take the etch down to flat metal again with a sanding block, or go to a local machine shop, as I have done before.  After all, we're only into the surface a fraction of a millimeter, so there's plenty left for re-etching and for strength.  And after putting so much work into that nice removable top-plate, you might not want to just toss it!

[soggybag]

Speaking of a top plate, I have been planning to etch a brass plate to mount on the face of a box for a while now. I have the plate cut to size. I need to think of a design for it. I had wanted to rivet it onto a box but couldn't find any rivets other than aluminum pop rivets and these didn't excite me very much.  Might just bolt it on. I had been planning on using the brass plate to cover a box that had already been drilled so I could repurpose it for a new project. I was also thinking about doing smaller plates on the sides marked IN and OUT.

[Samy]

Hello ! It´s the first time i write in this forum, it´s amazing the amount of information we can get around here ! This forum it´s great .

Can anyone tell me if it´s possible to acheive the same results using UV Varnish that i use to make PCB´s ? I never used PnP sheets and i probably never will, they are expensive and are not available in my country, so, i´m looking for another to etch boxes .
Thanks.