ANOTHER NOTE FOR NEWBIES AND THE YOUNGER FOLKS. Secret tone

[Bluesgeetar]

Just some things I've come across recently.   I really am moving away from effects and doing the guitar amp thing.  Recently befriended a amp maker who makes the best Marshall clones made!  Randy Hansen is using his stuff now and his friends pedals.  Well anyway.  He took my 73 Twin reverb and blackfaced it.  I crapped my pants and put alot of pedals in the closet.  The amp also has one blue utah and one orange JBL D120F.  Every time I stick a pedal in front of it I wind up jerking right out of the signal chain.  Now another more important note!  small tubes!!!!!!!  So I have a small selection of Mullard, Telefunken and Amperex tubes laying around.  I put the tubes in this order from right to left looking at the backof the amp:  Mullard 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7, Mullard 12AT7, Amperex 12AX7 Holland, Amperex 12AX7 Holland, Amperex 12 AT7 Great Britain.  These were put in place of all RCA tubes.  So what is the verdict?  Well believe it or not my Fender almost sounds like a AC30!  I was shocked at how close in sound it was to a VOX AC30.  The ound was very fat rounded and sustained chimey and very jangley.  I didn't like it!!!!  It wasn't the sound I was going for.  Put the RCAs back in and now I am so happy!!!!  The RCAs make the amp have that early Duane tone Gerry Garcia tone.  Very raw edgey or what I call Hippie Rock tone.  I am in hog heaven now!  So just keep this in mind before someone talks you ito buying some super expensive Mullard tubes!!!!  I really think that if you have a Fender amp and are looking for cool Rock tones Mullards will not get you there.  On the other hand I stuck two Mullard 12AX7 in my Supro Thunderbolt.  Sounds sweet.  Has this little mid range honk to it now.  It sound equally as good with the RCAs.  So after spending much time at this dudes amp shop I have come to the conclusion that fuzz overdrive pedals are nice but not really needed.  I have been blown away by just what an amp and a guitar will do.

Lesser known effects for newbies:
Tubes
speakers
blackfacing (Fender silvers)
Pure nickel strings of different gauges
flat wound vs round wound
caps in guitars (I use Bumble Bees or Sprague black beauties)
Brass saddles verses steel or nickel
Aluminum stopbar tailpiece
Bone nut
headstock mass (I like to use a Fat Finger sometimes)
Bridge posts ( I made my own brass posts for the ABR1 to sit on)
Pickups (I am a WCR addict)
Finger picking vs pick
Wiring  I use Jimmy Page wiring and 4 way on my Tele
amp volume (if neighbors complain get a Hot plate)
Pickup height
picking position ( picking close to the neck or close to the bridge
wall power!  ( running UK 240 or USA 120 sounds much different.)

Well these are things to try on rainy days when your tired of looking at circuit boards.  

Hey if any of you other seasoned players have any tricks up your sleeve share them with the younger folks.

[DDD]

also combination of preamp gain \ master gain - gives different tones while output level remains constant (think of neighbours ;^)

[Yun]

woah, info overload hahahahaha

As far as my tone goes, i rely on my vintage MXR 10-band EQ for fine tweaking.  

For fender, or "surf" tones- i use a 1960's unicord amp

For Hendrixy tones i use a marshall stack.  

But i NEVER play electric without my EQ.

[piperbob]

Nice to see someone touting "back to the basics".Can I use my Pod for a bathroom scale now? :lol:  Bluesgeetar, you forgot to mention the things attached to the end of your arms  :wink:

[The Tone God]

Practice.

Andrew

[nelson]

Learn more than the blues scales.

[Mattoverminder]

I have a tip for you, bluesgeetar. Don't put an expensive NOS tube in the 5th socket from the right (12ax7). That tube's only job is to operate the vibrato. The audio signal never touches it. Throw a cheap Sovtek in there and save your nice RCA, Mullard or Amperex for a rainy day.

[barret77]

to use those tubes on that equipment the younger folk is required to have really rich parents...

but if you're really a beginner, practicing, what's the sense of retubing your blackface (or blackfaced) with nos mullards anyway?

runoffgroove jfet circuits will do the job...

[barret77]

On the other hand I stuck two Mullard 12AX7 in my Supro Thunderbolt

$ 150 tubes in a $1000 amp...
no wonder it sounds sweet!  

[Bluesgeetar]

This is all good stuff.  Hey Barrett77, what I mean is that there is two tons of hype of there on alot of stuff.  Newer younger less fortunate parents tone searchers may be saving up their dough for some nice tubes, just didn't want them to drop the dough and not get what they thought they were gonna get in tone.  For less dough I recommend the RCA stuff then GE.  
Also I got in on the net early.  Back in 98.  So I paid $350 for my thunderbolt.  As more and more guitar folks got on the net, the prices on stuff have skyrocketed.  I shure as heck couldn't afford that $1000 Thunderbolt now.  I got lots of cool stuff cheap cause I jumped in on the net early on.

Totally agree with Nelson!  I took a couple years of Spanish classical guitar from a Member of the Masters guild.  It was the most amazing guitar experience ever.  That stuff is hypnotic.

thanks for that tip Matt

Piper and Tone God, first you got to get them sounding better.  I don't see enough credit given to inspiration.  Back in the beginning I hated to practice and said F it many times cause I used a crappy solid state amp.  Then once I got a nice tube amp I wanted to practice all the time.  First tube amp was a Blackface Deluxe from a cousin.  70 bucks.   I practiced like a fool with that amp.

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

tubes are alright. and i mean alright. I much prefer my Line 6 Spyder to my BV60H. the tone is MUCH more consistent with changes in volume, and is MUCH louder.

i *really* don't like seeing people go on about how great tubes are. If i wanted that, i'd go sign into an audiophile forum so we could babble for days about the shortcomings of solid state components, and the outright failure of digital components. i think that instead of bashing on solid state technology, we should be finding ways of improving it. this is a DIY site, right? :evil:

ok. done ranting.

[Mattoverminder]

Loud doesn't really even enter the equation as far as I'm concerned for most venues. I generally use a '68 Deluxe Reverb when I play out. It's only ~22 Watts, but mic it to the PA and it's as loud as it needs to be...

I'll be the first to admit that I use cheaper modern tubes (EH, JJ, etc.) I have neither the money nor inclination to spend top dollar on old NOS stuff, when the newer stuff gets me 99% of the way there... for my tastes anyway.

I definitely prefer tubes, because of that nice power tube grit that they're famous for. I will admit, however, that the Peppermill comes really close to that classic DR sound, and that I've used the one I built on a few occasions where I wasn't able to turn the DR up loud enough to break up (livingroom jam sessions, etc.)

Tube amps are also fun for me because I like to build / repair them myself... :wink:

[Bluesgeetar]

Well as everyone knows or doesn't know,  we all hear differently.  I played around with Line 6 stuff and it just wasn't there.  

But we all hear different.

 
Why do tube amps command a bigger dollor over SS stuff?  I guess everyone who owns a tube amp must be hearing things and should sell there amps and go by Line 6 stuff.  I think I will go do that today.  I'll go sell my Twin reverb and Thunderbolt and Supro super and buy me a Line 6 Spyder.  I can't wait for the vastly Superior tone to shine through on my recordings.

Also I have seen many posts that I thought were "babble"  and didn't care to see,  but you know I said nothing cause everyone can't be interested in everything that everyone else has to say or talk about.   Try to exercise a little common courtesy that everyone else on the board exercises.

enough of my rant :wink:

[Bluesgeetar]

Hey Matt.  I can't afford those expensive tubes either.  I just am lucky enough to know an old guy that owns an old electronics surplus store that has tones of old tubes.  He knows nothing about guitar amps.  Some genious from a boutique amp shop shot himself in the foot and let him in on the demand for Mullards and Amperex stuff.  He charges for those babies.  But he still let's the good USA stuff go cheap, cheaper than new JJ or EH.  Plus if I hit him on a good day he is in a good mood he'll just give me stuff.

Note:  The amp maker that I know is crazy about Thunderbolts and when he first plugged into mine he thought is sounded great.  Then he looked at the tubes (the ones I had in it at the time)  and it was two cheap Chinese 12AX7 and two Russian tubes for 6L6 and a GE 5U4GB.  SO there is a defense for Chinese stuff.  FYI though.  From what I been reading, the Chinese are really getting there Peking Ducks in a row and putting out superior tubes of some types.  May kill the NOS industry if they perfect it.

You got me curious.
I'll have to build me a Peppermill tonight and try her out.

[The Tone God]

Piper and Tone God, first you got to get them sounding better.  I don't see enough credit given to inspiration.

It is a poor musician who blams their instrument.

Andrew

[NaBo]

Connoisseur wasn't being really disrespectful...  In fact I took your initial post as a little condescending (newbies, youngsters) and pretentious (I like this, I have this, I am one of the seasoned players here, just look at this exhaustive list I've made of anything involved in shaping your tone etc etc).  You cant true bypass your saddles, and it wont make as insane a difference to your sound as an Ugly Face.  Fuzz pedals are "unneeded" because you like the sound of your guitar/s and amp/s by themselves... what???  :?

... okay... ranting over...

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way... and I know I didnt mean to come accross as hostile as I undoubtedly just did.  You sound like a purist type,  and thats cool sometimes... but most of us here are stompboxaholics!  Not always concerned with getting the "best" subjective "tone", but getting some interesting, useable sounds out of stuff we've made with our own two hands.  Connoisseur was just stating the truth I think...  This just isnt really the best place to belittle the benefits of having a little stompy friend on the floor.  Though it certainly tends to spark some debate

Like I said, it was just that very first post that rubbed me the wrong way a little (how I read it anyway)... And I'm pretty surly all around after having a 2 year relationship crash and burn in the worst way.  Friends? *extends hand for shaking* :wink:

[aron]

There will always be the people that will for some reason or another all of a sudden claim that they never need another distortion pedal and that a particular amp is the answer forever.

What I say is "GREAT"! Fantastic. If you've reached the pinnacle of tone and it doesn't entail a distortion pedal, then great for you.

However for the rest of us, we continually seek new ways of discovering tone and distortion for us.

I will say one thing. I have played some of the best amps and yes, some are "magical" but none have displayed the breath of variety that stompboxes can produce. None of them have given me the feeling of satisfaction of testing a newly created pedal.

None of the holy grail tubes I have (and I am lucky to have a large variety of drool creating tubes) have turned my Fender into a VOX or for that matter into a Trainwreck or other amp. Sure, it makes a difference, but so does modding your amp's EQ and gain stages.

If it works for you then that's all that mattters anyway.

[Regan]

IMO,
if somebody wants to spend a lot on NOS tubes, they should go all the way and get several of different brands, so they can try them all to find what they like. I love Mullards, but I would probably never stick all Mullards in any amp. If you can't find a bunch of old preamp tubes in good shape to test with, try a NOS as the first preamp tube (this will make the most difference) and go from there.
I have the good fortune to have a supply of preamp tubes of different brands, and I find that what works in one amp doesn't mean it will work in another.
I completely agree about Mullards in a twin, but wouldn't say not to use Mullards in ANY Fender amp, Mullards in a Champ, Princeton, or a Deluxe are great tubes.
Regan

[Paul Marossy]

It is a poor musician who blams their instrument.

Good point! (unless you vave a P.O.C. with strings 1/2" off of the fretboard...)

I've been "back to basics" for a long time now after doing the rack mounted digital FX thing for some years and having a tone that basically sucked. Now I have the tones I have been after all these years without everything sounding lifeless and like it's in a cavern. Viva DIY!  :wink:

[fikri]

Speaking about tones, everybody have their best tones based on their experienced in hearing an amps and records as much as possible. i love  my deluxe reverb amp as much as my handmade stompboxes.