Primer and Clear from Smallbear?

[formerMember1]

Anybody ever try Small Bear's etching metal primer and Clear coat Enamel?  Is it really worth the money?  How many pedals can be done with one can of each?  I use the Hammond 1590B boxes.

It is probably good, since small bear wouldn't stock anything that sucks that bad. :wink:

Also, i read some things on this forum about my next question but just wanted to make sure.
I only have access to an $59.99 HP ink jet printer for doing decals.  I heard some people had good result with ink jet decals and others not.  Would i be better off going with a painting pen from an arts and crafts store or tryin the inkjet decals?  I want a professional look? Is the decal softener any good?  What does that do exactly?

thanks   :wink:

[chokeyou]

im in the same boat right now

from what i've gathered, the decal softener just helps seperate the decal from the backing paper when you attempt to water slide them. ( i could be wrong) Also, what i've heard works when using inkjet printers for the decals, you need to mist some clear coat on there right after it comes out of the printer and allowing it to dry, and dont overdo it, its supposed to preserve the ink a little better when it comes time to stick it under water.

[mojotron]

One option you should consider, if all you have is an inkjet, is to use the "dark shirt" iron on t-shirt transfers. You iron them right to the metal, then paint the sides and clear coat.

Primer: you need an etching primer - you can find stuff like that at auto paint stores. This kind of primer is not too easy to find, but is needed for AL enclosures. But, I also use a lot of steel electrical boxes for prototyping and I have found that any-old primer works just as well on steel.  

I use the SOL decal softener after I put the decals on. This is what I do - using laser printer water slide decals:

My method of aplying decals and clearcoating:
1) print the lables to a blank page
2) cover that area with a piece of laser decal paper cut to size and tape down
3) print so that the laser decal paper now has the fuser in the right spot.
4) put a med-heavy coat of spray laquer clear coat on the decal paper before cutting it up
5) Finish the under coats on the enclosure, then spray 1 good coat of laquer clear and let it dry for a day or so.
6) cut the decals up using oval shapes - not rectangles.
7) put a few drops of water on the area for a decal to lay
eight) put the decal under water in a small bowl for 20-25 seconds - keeping the decal still loosely attached to the backing
9) pick the decal up out of the water with my right index finger under the right edge of the decal backing
10) put the decal in place - with the backing still on - holding the decal with my right index finger under the decal backing and my right thumb loosely holding it with the index finger.
11) then, I aply a tiny amount of presure to the left top side of the decal - in place on the box - and gently slide the backing to the right while controlling the path of the decal to sit right where I want it to as the backing is pulled away. This is a 1 shot thing really, you can start over with a new decal, but re-using a failed attempt is going to have a lower probability of working out.
12) while keeping my left index finger on the decal - holding it in place - I use a q-tip to gently push the water out from under the decal so that the hydrogen bonding of the decal to the laquer clear coat is optimized - you want a very thin layer of water under the decal.
13) let it sit and dry when you have all of the decals in place
14) when just about all of the water has dried, aply one coat of SOL around all of the decal edges, then aply one coat to the top of all of the decals, then aply a second application of SOL to the edges of the decals.
15) when it dries, if you want, repeat the previous step to reduce the edges a bit more. More applications of SOL will reduce the edges, but not eliminate them.

If you get really experinced you can reduce or eliminate the need to clear coat the decals before cutting them up, but it's really tough to work with decals unless you coat them with a clear coat first - but this reduces the effectivness of the SOL decal softener. It's a compromise.

16) when everything is completely dry, clear coat with laquer twice, let dry for 48 hours (longer may be better), then clear coat with a good coat of Future floor wax

17) Let it dry for 48 hours (longer may be better)

Now, if you used self etching primer, this should give you a tough finish with decals that have extreemly faint edges.  

[KORGULL]

formerMember1 wrote:

I only have access to an $59.99 HP ink jet printer for doing decals.

Is the decal softener any good? What does that do exactly?

I think the softener is only for use with laser printed decals.

I haven't tried the iron-ons yet, but judging by photos I've seen, I'm thinking that the (ink-jet) print quality is better with the iron-on material than with decal stock. Like maybe the iron-on stock "takes" the ink better.

[gaussmarkov]

One option you should consider, if all you have is an inkjet, is to use the "dark shirt" iron on t-shirt transfers. You iron them right to the metal, then paint the sides and clear coat.

Why "dark shirt" t-shirt transfers?  What's the difference between dark and white?  (I just bought a few white t-shirt transfers this morning :roll: )

[formerMember1]

I spoke to small bear via a email and replied with this info.

Decal softner does not work with ink jet printer decals.

The clear and primer he sells, is high quality that is used for automotive stuff.

the avery iron on decals are better at getting professional quality decals using ink jet.

And not to sound rude but i forgot the rest of the stuff he said :roll:

if i remember i will reply,

[gaussmarkov]

I haven't tried the iron-ons yet, but judging by photos I've seen, I'm thinking that the (ink-jet) print quality is better with the iron-on material than with decal stock. Like maybe the iron-on stock "takes" the ink better.

I agree, but sometimes the iron-on also seems to run into problems with over-heating.  Someone did say somewhere that with inkjet decals you have to be careful with the clear spray step.  I think the best approach is supposed to use a light initial coat.  And some clear sprays apparently interact with the ink.  Several manufacturers recommend Krylon Cyrstal Clear.

I haven't done any of this yet.  But I am about to try the inkjet water slide decal with Krylon combo.

[mojotron]

One option you should consider, if all you have is an inkjet, is to use the "dark shirt" iron on t-shirt transfers. You iron them right to the metal, then paint the sides and clear coat.

Why "dark shirt" t-shirt transfers?  What's the difference between dark and white?  (I just bought a few white t-shirt transfers this morning :roll: )

The dark shirt transfers are white like paper. You can't iron onto a painted surface, so the dark shirt transfers give you a white bacground to work with. The other t-shirt transfers will work too, but you have to work with the color of the metal enclosure.

[gaussmarkov]

One option you should consider, if all you have is an inkjet, is to use the "dark shirt" iron on t-shirt transfers. You iron them right to the metal, then paint the sides and clear coat.

Why "dark shirt" t-shirt transfers?  What's the difference between dark and white?  (I just bought a few white t-shirt transfers this morning :roll: )

The dark shirt transfers are white like paper. You can't iron onto a painted surface, so the dark shirt transfers give you a white bacground to work with. The other t-shirt transfers will work too, but you have to work with the color of the metal enclosure.

thanks, mojotron!  turns out that's exactly what i wanted--a "transparent" transfer, like a clear decal.

[mojotron]

One option you should consider, if all you have is an inkjet, is to use the "dark shirt" iron on t-shirt transfers. You iron them right to the metal, then paint the sides and clear coat.

Why "dark shirt" t-shirt transfers?  What's the difference between dark and white?  (I just bought a few white t-shirt transfers this morning :roll: )

The dark shirt transfers are white like paper. You can't iron onto a painted surface, so the dark shirt transfers give you a white bacground to work with. The other t-shirt transfers will work too, but you have to work with the color of the metal enclosure.

thanks, mojotron!  turns out that's exactly what i wanted--a "transparent" transfer, like a clear decal.

Post a picture if you get it to work out the way you wanted.

[skiraly017]

I order a LaserJet sheet and decal softener from Small Bear. The decals printed beautifully and the decal softener is the bee's knees. I didn't exactly know what to expect with this stuff, but I am thoroughly impressed. You cannot tell that the lettering is a decal. I even used it on a hammered finish with excellent results. I'll post pics when I can.

[mojotron]

I order a LaserJet sheet and decal softener from Small Bear. The decals printed beautifully and the decal softener is the bee's knees. I didn't exactly know what to expect with this stuff, but I am thoroughly impressed. You cannot tell that the lettering is a decal. I even used it on a hammered finish with excellent results. I'll post pics when I can.

Ya, that's some good stuff. I just did a few projects last week end and used white vinegar - I'ld have to say that the SOL decal melting stuff (from Steve) works the best. It really depends on your top coat though. With a laquer top coat it is really hard to see the lines, especially with 2 coats of clear under the decal and one coat over the decal.

[formerMember1]

yeah i have those things(softner and laser decal sheets) in my next order, I'll post my experience