Ready to throw my fuzzface in the trash

[RicF]

I'm having a tough time getting this thing to work like I want it. This was the first pedal I ever tried to build (done a few since then) but I keep coming back to it to try and make it like I want it. Never with any success. Just the basic GGG fuzzface board, positive ground PNP model, Ge transistors ordered from Small Bear and built with the values supplied. Nothing but farty lows and hissy distortion. Backing off on the volume is almost like hitting the switch; it gets to a point where the fuzz and most of the volume just dissapears, and not smooth at all.

So I put it back on a breadboard with pots between every resistor, smaller caps to try and get the fartiness out, but still I'm not happy. It still has the switch effect when the volume is turned down. Still sounds hissy. I'm considering starting over with silicon transistors to see what happens, but I'll probably waste a few more evenings messing with this thing first.

Okay, venting done. I feel better now.

[AL]

Nothing but farty lows

Sounds like your transistors aren't biased. You said you put a pot "in between" each resistor. I'm not sure what that means. So, take out the 8.2K (R5) and the 100K (R3) and put trimpots in their place. This should allow you to adjust things.

When you put in on the breadboard don't hook up the switch. The less you have in the circuit the easier it will be to trouble shoot.

AL

[jimbob]

where did u get your trannies? What kind are they?

[Pedal love]

Keep trying. It usually comes down to bias resistor changes or changing the germanium transistors. I have had good results using AC125 trannys, but thats a personal preference.pl

[RicF]

The transistors are PNP Ge's ordered from smallbear, and they included the resistor values to use, which I did, but I'm still not having much luck. I don't remember the part number right now, I'll look tonight. something-404's?

I put trimpots in along with smaller resistors, but couldn't seem to get it dialed in right. I might not have put them in the optimal place either. I probably just need to spend a few more hours making small changes and playing for a bit, which I'll do in my nearly-nonexistant free time. And no, I didn't hook up the switch to the breadboard, just the basics.

Is it normal for the gain to roll off that fast with the guitar's volume knob though? I can almost hear it click like a switch (well not really, but it is very abrupt).

[jimbob]

I had a similar problem at 1st. I think it was more of making adjustmnts to my amo and guitar ( which are easy overlooked when trying to pull a good tone.) Also the 1k rev pot Steve just got in make a big difference.

[Stevo]

If you have been heating and cooling a lot around your transistors the sound you say sounds like bad transistor.. Now I know Small Bear at the time of biasing wouldnt send you bad ones but I have built and installed after sound check into a box than the transistors go on me.. get a bunch extra to have a round to try and see....

[C Bradley]

This is why silicon RULES!!  :twisted: Silicon is more stable and consistant.

You could try my Fuzz Face circuit:

http://www.geocities.com/teleman28056/fuzz_face_schematics.html

I like the 2N2222 for this one.

[petemoore]

Nice page there C Bradley !
 RS Boards are relatively inexpenxive and good stuff that's easy to get for some of us.
 I've had good results with Q1 as
 2n2222
 2n4401
 2n2369 [the batch of these I got most were excellent candidates for FFQ1's]
 The main thing is to match the gains the circuit likes.
 Joe Davisson provided an interactive FF calculator for choosing/matching R values, biases, and transistor gains.
 Something around the recommended gain for Q2 [see RG's tech of FF at GEO] used with a matched lower gain Q1 is what seems to allow the FF to cleanup 'differently' with the guitar volume.
 Higher gain transistors in a FF...I'd look at some schem's that call for them...I kind of gave up on that opting for the recommended gains for Q1/Q2.
 Sometimes a 1k isn't actually 1k, a small stop resistor series between the 1k and Gnd. can raise the gain of the FF, with an Axis Face I turn the gain down a touch anyway.

[C Bradley]

Nice page there C Bradley !

Thanks!   I think that the FF likes lower gain transistors. The 2N3906 FF I built is like a fuzz-bomb, but that's good at times too.  :wink: The 2N2222 FF is less fizzy and more like a transistor amp's distortion.

[petemoore]

FF :evil:
 FF
 FF
 Gottta watch them gains if you want to be able to control it easy.
 Super mongo gain ff can be ultra and all, but...it's easy to get overly wooly, saturated, basically it works best IME if...everything's 'right', right for me is: [       ] possibly different than right for you.

[STOMPmole]

Nothing but farty lows and hissy distortion. Backing off on the volume is almost like hitting the switch; it gets to a point where the fuzz and most of the volume just dissapears, and not smooth at all.

...I may be missing something, but depending on what your definition of "farty" and "hissy" is it sounds like you're describing a Fuzz Face!  Have you played other Ge FFs that you liked?

[petemoore]

I wasn't too sure about my first FF, so I built a FF to compare it to.
 I used to 'race' them alot, comparing for max saturation level, general well behavedness, and guitar vol cleanup.
 May the best unit win a pedalboard space.
 With an Si FF that has 'workable' voltages, and Fuzzes, you pretty much can tell it's at least a 'working' FF.

[Stevo]

The trick is to add another transistor at the end of it.... Connect a fetzler vavle boost from rungroove on the end or add another germanium like this.... Running off the end of the fuzz.........Connect 470k to +9volt 100k to -9volt connect the base to the middle of these kind of like a LPB-1 than use a 4.7k to collector to 9volt+.... base to ground from the collector next to the transistor connect a .1uf now your volume pot leave the other cap at the end of the first phase.....This thing will wail if it is even just a fair transistor.....You will really hear a Fuzz face now..any questions Thanks :twisted:

[C Bradley]

I put a BJT emitter follower in front of a Tone Bender once.... I was trying to get out of buying a nice footswitch, so I used a SPDT switch and used the buffer. Anyway, this thing was a screamer! Lots of treble bite.  :twisted: I've still got the board somewhere....

[Yun]

I never could get "the hang" of Ge's, man.  So if all is shot, go the silicon route, dude.  

i have NEVER had troubles biasing a silicon transistor.  Maybe i'm just lucky eh?

It makes me a bit furiated as well, so don't feel like your the only one, man.  

What really made me angry is when i bought 2 tonebender boards from tone pad, germs from small bear- couldn't get that working.  i then built the silicon tonebender on perfboard and it worked first try.  That really made me angry!  

Besides; i never really liked the "germanium tone" in the first place.  So i'd say:  Do what these guys suggested.  If that doesn't work out for youse, stick some silicon 2N3906 's in there....

[Stevo]

For the smoothness of tone and sustain you cannot beat a well built germnium fuzz.. The sola sound fuzz has its problems working but a MK II done the way it is supposed too with an adjustable input cap as described by Joe Gagen is the best sounding distortion fuzz I know,smooth and really good attack decay with the sustain,,,, a silicon will give a very raspy sustain in my opinion ..You are entitled to yours.. the only thing realy I am saying is germaniums have a sound quality many people desire....work with them spend some time use three transistors like I explained and you will have a driving fuzz box!!! thanks

[RicF]

I had better luck today, I was able to get some sounds that I liked very much on my breadboard. The high notes sound very good to me now, but I still have a lot of bass on the low end.  I'm running it though a 2x12 blackface bandmaster so that accounts for some of it, but I think I need to play with the caps a bit to try and cut some off the very bottom.  Right now I can't play chords on the low strings unless I'm using the bridge pickup, and it's still about as bassy as I want the neck pickup to sound.  But it seems to be biased correctly now and sounding much better.

I really love the fuzzface sound, so I'm not going to stop messing with them. I think I'll make a multi-face on perfboard so I can try out all different  kinds, and I do want to build a 3-transistor Ge model sometime too.

[jimbob]

Im still suprised at how anyone is able to sell guitar pedals due to all the different things involved, such as amps being used, guitars, ect... It seems these effects need to be customized. Clothing sales. I feel like the taylor that makes his own clothes for the perfect fit.

[Pedal love]

Im still suprised at how anyone is able to sell guitar pedals due to all the different things involved, such as amps being used, guitars, ect... It seems these effects need to be customized. Clothing sales. I feel like the taylor that makes his own clothes for the perfect fit.

I guess thats why the boutique guys are doing better all the time. I tried
a tweak fuzz and it blew the pants off any of the stores standard fuzz faces.pl