FUZZ FACE versus................fuzz face??

[BD13UK]

The Laney has 2 x 5881/6L6  tubes, I removed the horrible HH Invader speaker and fitted a Celestion Century Neodymium it makes the amp even lighter and it sounds pretty good as well.

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
    Really??? I didn't know any Laneys had 6L6 power tubes in them.
Is there any chance it was converted from EL34 tubes?
Brian.

[bwanasonic]

I used to get a bit pissed that Hendrix could get clean/slight drive/more drive etc up to all out fuzz ALL from the guitar volume, I saw Him live on two occasions and He did it both times, I've now kinda put it down to the fact that He had 3 Marshall stacks running at high levels and volume wasn't a problem for Him in most venues unlike small gigs that I usually do where even using a 50 watt amp it's difficult to crank it up and be able to utilise the power along with the FF to obtain such a myriad of sounds

Yes, sheer volume is an often overlooked factor in the quest for the tones of guitar heroes past.  The fact is many of these sounds just don't scale down the way we'd like. You end up with a *scale-model* of the sound you want. What do you think is a greater factor in the Hendrix sound, transistor X in whatever Fuzz Face he was using at the moment, or the fact that he was moving an air-mass the size of Cleveland?

Kerry M

[BD13UK]

Brian Wenz!!!!!!  the Laney came out the factory with 5881's however I understand that the latest model is EL34 equipped.

[brett]

This is going OT, but here goes anyway:

Celestion anniversery 30-watt

A very nice speaker.  
Being a cheapskate, I'm checking out Sammi speakers.  They are as cheap as chips and have a great and increasing reputation.  The 50W 12" only costs AUD$75, which is about US$50.  (Mine arrives Friday.  So now I just gotta finish off that Marshall 18 watter :twisted: ).
Will let you know whether I like it.
cheers

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
  Kerry-- My vote does for "Cleveland" !!  [also, if  it was raining or not that day.....]
   Brett-- 18 watt clone??  Sounds great...keep us posted!   Have you looked into some of the new Eminence speakers??   I don't know how cheap you can get them in Australia but alot of good players I know REALLY love 'em.
   BD-- Wow....never was aware that they made a Laney with 5881 tubes. Thanks!
Brian.

[z-zero]

I've always kind of steered away from fuzz faces for the same reasons mentioned in the ROG sili-face article. I just didn't want to work real hard for something I'm not even sure I liked. But after reading this thread and seeing the guts of the tweak fuzz I realize Its possible to get a decent sounding silicon fuzz out of everyday 2n3904 trannys. Just goes to show how wonderful the fuzz face/current shunt amplifier circuit really was back in the day.

Anyway, I say all that to get to my question. Is it the biasing of the trannys, any given tranny combo, that gets the fuzz face circuit to optimum assymetrical clipping (best sounding to me), or is the gain of the tranny's (matching) more important when going for the most assymetrical clipping possible? I thought this was a good question for a Fuzz vs. Fuzz thread. I have read the "technology of" article many times but never thought about it this way until I read this thread. So all you fuzz face gurus out there chim in please.

z-zero

I plan on building a fuzz, just need to find time.

[petemoore]

Lower' gain Q1.
 {I assume you know 'proper' bias should be had]
 Cap voicing makes a big difference.
 Testboard, breadboard..with one of these, if there's a FF sound you like you can most likely find it.

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
     Proper biasing [especially of Q2's collector] will get you the best sound out of ANY  pair of transistors but different trannys will give you different tone and gain.  [A pair of BC108C  will give you more gain and "sizzle" then 2n3904...etc.]
Where the real fun comes in is putting a lower gain tranny in Q1.  It takes some of the harshness out of the circuit and cleans up the tone a bit when you lower your guitars' volume knob  [improved dynamics].   If you want more of a germanium sound, use low gain trannys in the circuit  [Hey Brett, are you out there??...]  
I like both kinds of circuits for different reasons!
Brian.

[z-zero]

Lower' gain Q1.
 {I assume you know 'proper' bias should be had]
 Cap voicing makes a big difference.
 Testboard, breadboard..with one of these, if there's a FF sound you like you can most likely find it.

Cool, thanks Pete! So I assume saying If Q1 is 60 hfe and Q2 is 120 hfe it will have the same assymetrical properties/ratio that say a combo of Q1 100 hfe and q2 is 200 hfe? The 2 combos will sound different because of the gain level but will assymetrically clip the same? Thanks so much for the quick reply by the way.

z-zero

Thanks also goes to Brian, just missed your post before my orignal reply.

[z-zero]

Hello Hello--
     Proper biasing [especially of Q2's collector] will get you the best sound out of ANY  pair of transistors but different trannys will give you different tone and gain.  [A pair of BC108C  will give you more gain and "sizzle" then 2n3904...etc.]
Where the real fun comes in is putting a lower gain tranny in Q1.  It takes some of the harshness out of the circuit and cleans up the tone a bit when you lower your guitars' volume knob  [improved dynamics].   If you want more of a germanium sound, use low gain trannys in the circuit  [Hey Brett, are you out there??...]  
I like both kinds of circuits for different reasons!
Brian.

Thanks again Brian. So the lower gain aspect of Q1 is why Joe D's Antiquity fuzz is so interesting, because doesn't that diode really limit the gain of q1? I might be wrong, man the fuzz face is starting to really "click" if you know what I mean.

z-zero

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
    Hmmm...don't know about the diode...somebody else needs to elaborate on that one.  I guess I'm going to have to build the Antiquity, too!
I wish Brett [or Will Firstbrook] would add some stuff about the piggybacked transistor....that's a cool way to lower the hfe of any tranny if you can't find a low gain one.
 Yeah, I'm always trying out different stuff with the old FF circuit...it gets addicting!
Brian.

[z-zero]

This hobby is addicting, when I don't have time to build stuff or I'm unable to, I'm always reading about it here. Crazy fun. I think I might dive into this fuzz face thing, although I'm affraid I won't be able to stop building new and different ones until I die or something.  :lol:

Soon to be Fuzz freak (Lord willing)

z-zero

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
     Hey Fret wire---Did you get a chance to check the date on those 2N3053 transistors??
Thanks--
Brian.

[Fret Wire]

I checked, and they have no date code. Just a "C" and "2N3053". Now, I don't think they are TI's anymore. TI's will always have the Texas logo plus a date code. I thought they were TI's :oops: . They are the large top-hat style with the collector lead going to the case itself. Anyways, I do know they are older production. And they sound great. I'll have to figure who made them before I run out.

[Fret Wire]

But really, since they're Si, there's no big deal. It's more of the gain range than the tranny. Some may be noisier than others...you're right there. I, for instance, tried two different batches of 2n2222's and didn't like them. Ever try 2N3903's? That's right, not 3904's, but 3903's. I got a batch, TO-92 w/gold leads, lower gain (under 150). Very nice sounding. They have  an "M" on them which I take to be Motorola, plus 2n3903, and they've nicely marked the pinout with "e b c".

I don't sweat Si's at all. For low gain types, I go with PN2369a's/2N4400's, for everything else, BC108's (175-275), 2N3053's, and these 3903's. When I run out of these batches, I know I can count on the BC108's. I may see 100 of some Si's on ebay, and check the data sheet. If they are around 150-300, I'll order them, and try them in my fuzz jig. If for some reason I don't like them, I'll use them in other ckts anywhere a 3904 can be used.

If there was any magic in Si's tone wise, it would probably be in the upper range that we kill off with a pf cap anyways.

Pm me if you want to try some of these.

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello FW--
    I have two different batches of 3053 trannys.  Some are from Radio Shack  and are marked with "Malaysia" on 'em and the other batch is from Mouser and has "CEN" 2N3053  0313"  on 'em.
The 3053's seemed a bit "wooley" sounding to me but I always thought they could sound good in something.....just gotta find some that aren't noisey.
You've got a P.M.
Brian.