Inspired by Mr. Vex- a story/questions not a schem

[tomlau]

Earlier today I was using the search function to find a schematic or an alternative to the Zvex SHO (I know I know but keep reading). I stumbled upon an  old thread where some guy got in trouble for copying a MXR microamps and selling them. I read the whole 11 page topic and at the end decided not to bother with the SHO. What was said by Zach (not the bitchin part ) inspired me be to be more creative AND maybe more commercial.

Instead of the SHO-like I decided my next project would be an education. See I would really like to not have to clone or mod others people work. I would love to be able to produce something completely original, something that people would seek out and buy. I do not dream or even want to be next Zvex, ironically (after reading that old thread) I work in cancer research. However I would like to be in a position to design and sell my pedals one day, not for a living but maybe for some extra cash.

The problem: I know NOTHING about electronics.
I was wondering if you guys could tell me how you learnt to do what you do? What fascinates me most is how you guys can say "well if you put x resistor here and y cap there it'll sound like z". Where can I learn this? Is there a dedicated book(s)? Most beginners electronics books tell you how to make leds flash or an am radio but I was looking for something i can directly relate to as a musician. Are there others like Zach who make money out of producing pedals and can share how they learnt their trade and built up their business?

apologies for long post and all the questions (braces self for newbie seeking flame missiles)

[Phorhas]

Well, I'm not much of an EE (actually - not at all ). But I know enough to sit all day infront of a breadboard with my guitar and tailor my tone, from cloning to tottaly design from scrach. I even sell a few things here and there.

Abhout 95% of all that I know about electronics I got from the net, whether it was from some site with theory or from forums, with their great disscusions.

basically just surf the net untill you're fed up with info (then go to your public library and read some more)

But most important In my opinion is experamenting. trial and error. hits and misses. just a guitar and an amp with something to tweak between them.

I must take this oppertunity to thank the poeple here and in other forums for all of the support and good will. I won't mention names, but you know who you are. again, thanks.

BTW try the links page... it's pretty good

[Eirik]

I'm kinda thinking the same way as you:) It would be really cool to be able to make my own designs, not nessacerily to make alot of money but still... I am planning on getting some schoolbooks about electronics. After all, people who want to make a living out of dealing with transistors and caps an stuff have to start somewhere.
Actually I started to study electronics myself 10 years ago or so, but I changed to studiung music instead... I guess I still didn't become a rockstar :oops:

Anyway, most electronics used in stompboxes are quite basic, (at least the fuzz/overdrive/distortion/booster types) and I remember I learned quite alot about the maths concerning trannies and all this other stuff being used. Can't remember any of the maths today I'm afraid..

To  become as good at this as R.G, J. Orman, Aron, Zach and all these other great guys in this forum would of course take lot and lots of work and study, and I probably will never get there. And oops.. I'm moving OT... :oops:  :oops:

Well there you go... Just my thoughts :roll:  And you were asking for someone who actually know something about this stuff. Sorry

[Mark Hammer]

RG and Jack already have some excellent technical papers on their sites about designing discrete transistor stages.  You may have to hunt around for them because of all the content on those sites, butyou'll find a lot of what you are asking for in those papers.

If you are starting from the beginning, expect it to take a few years.  That may seem like a long time, but it took the rest of us in the over-45 bracket at least 10-15 years (and sometimes more) to learn that same content.  Consider yourself lucky that you have the resources you do.

[Dragonfly]

read, read, read the FAQ and then be prepared to spend plenty of time experimenting....

one thing thats helped me quite a bit is using trimmer pots instead of resistors...when i find the sound i like, i can just use a MM to measure the value (so i can use fixed resistors later)....also, socketing transistors and input/output caps helps a lot....

andy

[zachary vex]

...If you are starting from the beginning, expect it to take a few years.  That may seem like a long time, but it took the rest of us in the over-45 bracket at least 10-15 years (and sometimes more) to learn that same content...

ain't that the truth!

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

it's cool to see people asking for places to learn. most often, you only see people looking for schemos *or* a layout. now i feel lame.

actually, i am kind of trying out a design. it has some oscillation issues on breadboard (oscillates no matter what) but that is to be expected. it has six gain stages.  :oops:  great potential, though.

[petemoore]

Where is the oscialltion coming from I ask myself.
 From the ciruit is the answer, from the circuit Pete...
 I'ts tricky getting super high gain, no oversaturation, low noise/great tone etc. from a 'self designed' circuit.
 Most of my so called self design is based on somethings, all of these things can be viewed 'here or very near here'.
 I love looking at 'new' stuff [new to me anyway], I'm interested now in the 'Unidrive'.

[Transmogrifox]

Experimentation is one of your best tools.  

Math, Physics, and EE background help for understanding what you observe.  These things can be learned by searching the web for information and putting the time into learning it (as mentioned above).

The downside is that it takes a good amount of time.  Keep looking and reading what you find.  GEO is a great page since RG takes the time to explain the theory of the circuits and you will learn a great deal if you bang your head on an article for a while until you fully understand it.

[Processaurus]

I got a good deal out of a one semester beginning electronics class at the local community college, more, I feel, then one can get from tidbits from the Internet, in terms of a solid understanding of basic electronics.  In addition to learning stuff about electricity and circuits, if the class is good you learn good soldering techniques, plus how to use a multimeter and oscilloscope.  Also if you get along with your teacher, they would probably be excited to help you troubleshoot pedal circuits, as they're used to having students who're just getting school credit.  At my school they even had nice sheet metal station for making enclosures for stuff.

If you know good electronics, you may have a leg up on quite a few boutique pedal makers that are stuck making clones, when it comes to trying to create groundbreaking stuff like Fuzz probes and Sonic Alienators.

That being said, this forum and the websites of contributers are TREMENDOUSLY helpful with pedal specific info and craftsmanship ideas.  

Anyway, its cool you're interested in finding out what makes these things tick.

Good Luck!

[smccusker]

I've been so inspired by the people at this forum, that I've decided to take a course in electronics next year. I'm really excited about it, the course description seems like it was tailor made for my needs, everything from etching circuit boards to DSP programming (my background is in computer music anyway).

Hopefully then I wont have to pester people for help with the most menial of problems.

[DavidS]

I'm going to be studying electronics this fall at the local community college. Looking forward to it, but with a little dread as well. Last time I took an electronics class there, I usually spent the first 20 minutes of lab time doing my work, and another hour and a half helping other people. I was the unofficial lab aid, and I wound up skipping the last three weeks of lab. Still managed to get an A though, don't know how, my teacher must have fudged the grade.

He was a bastard, too. Nice enough to me, but to the people who had a hard time with some of the concepts, he was merciless. Had some sort of fetish for public humiliation. Weird.

I would strongly recommend a class or two. Or a lot of them. Having a professional around who knows his shit and can answer your questions intelligently right as the issues crop up is VERY nice in technical fields. Like Electronics and Computer Science. Irreplaceable, I think. And it's the perfect complement for experimenting on your own, which is essential. The two go hand in hand. Theory without application will get you nowhere fast.

Not to mention all of the fascinating social connections that crop up in classes like that. Chances are you'll find someone who has some very interesting projects of thier own going on.

[moisho]

Hi all.

Like tomlau (and a lot of us), I was shocked with Zach's designs... I haven't seen anyone of his boxes opened, but the Probe concept, the Seek's, the Fuzz factory... uf... impresive... it's more a cuestion of imagination that a technical one.

The fact is I'm from spain, and I can't get a ZVex in local shops... I decided trying to emulate Zach and create a SeekTrem from the scrach. The idea is the only thing I (or I should say we) "stoled" from Zach.

I started a post in www.guitarramania.com (a guitar spanish forum), and more or less a couple of months after we got a kind of Seek-Trem, Seek-Wah and Seek-Loop (we are working in this right now... we are trying to sequenciate any stompbox you already have) and a seek-oscilator (funny crazy thing)
I'm shure the results are not so good, clean and not have the musicality that the original have, but the point is: IT'S the MOST INTERESTING EXPERIENCE I HAD IN THE DIY WORLD.
I think it's much more interesting experiment and create than clonate or copy.

I would thank Zachary Vex for being a constant source of inspiration. Thanks

And this is the box at the end... I put a Wah and a Trem selectable with one rotatory switch. The second footswitch is to reset the sequencer.

[zachary vex]

fun!  post some audio clips!  8^)  that thing is huge!  heh.

[The Tone God]

Is that the Vanishing Point variant you guys came up with that used a 555 ?

Andrew

[moisho]

Yes the sequencer is based on the Vanishing Point ... but I have not used a 555 as long I remember... I used only a 4017 and a 4093. (I have not put the random mode). I used a idiot wah, and a piece of the tremolous lune. I change between them using a 4 circuits 3 positions rotary switch.

Audio links. There they go:

http://www.hispasonic.com/usuario-moisho.html

The samples are recorded directly to PC, guitar-psicotrmwah-PC. 0 quality, but enough to show how this stuff sounds. I've played a couple of chords, and play with the knobs at the same time.

Here you can listen 4 songs of my ex-band... alternative style. Please... feel free to comment.

Zach, thanks a lot for your comment!!!! Nothing can be more satisfying for me. Directly from the source!!!

[The Tone God]

Yes the sequencer is based on the Vanishing Point ... but I have not used a 555 as long I remember... I used only a 4017 and a 4093. (I have not put the random mode). I used a idiot wah, and a piece of the tremolous lune. I change between them using a 4 circuits 3 positions rotary switch.

I too have done a combination sequencer. Mine has the volume, wah, and a phase/vibrato mode. One of the earlier Vanishing Points I played with used an idiot wah. Sounded nice I thought.

I have plans to revamp and simplify the random mode so it does not need another optocoupler but I won't be able to post it for a few months. Some other features will be included too.

I saw the threads at www.guitarramania.com. I wish I could have particpated in the conversation but I don't speak spainish and things would have been messy if I had used translator software. Send my regards and thanks to the folks over there. Don't forget to credit all those who contributed.

Andrew

[moisho]

Thanks a lot to you also. Do you know that right now your Vanishing Point is known as "The Moisho's Sequencer" in Guitarramania??? (...and I said a lot of times I haven't disigned it... but you know)
I think the random mode has been eliminated in the spanish prototipe only to save one optocoupler... (like you say)
And don't hesitate to use english to say something in guitarramania... most of people there can speak english (more or less) and we all will apreciatte a lot your advices.

And by the way... thanks to Tim Escobedo and Commondsonund people... they have helped a lot also

[The Tone God]

And don't hesitate to use english to say something in guitarramania... most of people there can speak english (more or less) and we all will apreciatte a lot your advices.

Hmmm. In that case I'll be coming over just about...

Andrew

[moisho]

Andrew... I answered o your post in the Spanish forum!!!