Behringer pedals out...

[brad]

Uh...I'm pretty sure Brett just returned home from a trip to China recently.

[brett]

March and April through northern and western China.
Yes, China has labour camps (and the death penalty).  Fundamentally wrong in 2005.  But just like the USA.

Back on topic:  I bought a small Behringer mixer for *home* use and it's great value for money (8 channels for US$50, on sale I think).  A DIY mixer with the same functionality would have cost two to three times as much for the parts.  It's not rugged, but neither is the treatment it'll get.
cheers

[StephenGiles]

If you play football with your effects pedals the cases won't last long, but in any case, if I'm doing a gig I'm as careful with my pedals as I am with my guitar and amp, so what's the problem??

[bwanasonic]

If you play football with your effects pedals the cases won't last long, but in any case, if I'm doing a gig I'm as careful with my pedals as I am with my guitar and amp, so what's the problem??

Ahh, but the problem is, will everyone else on stage be as careful? I've had a number of pedals crunched under a bandmate's foot (as well as guitars gouged, speaker grilles torn, etc). A *stompbox* that can't withstand vigorous stomping is not *stageworthy*, IME.

Kerry M

[brad]

My stage is my loungeroom.  :lol:

[StephenGiles]

[
Ahh, but the problem is, will everyone else on stage be as careful? I've had a number of pedals crunched under a bandmate's foot (as well as guitars gouged, speaker grilles torn, etc). A *stompbox* that can't withstand vigorous stomping is not *stageworthy*, IME.

Kerry M

Then I suggest they eat and drink a little less so that they are not so heavy on their equipment
Stephen

[Rochey]

I think it's quite obvious that this equipment isn't designed for gigging musicians. It's designed with the bedroom guitarist in mind- 14 years old, wants to look cool in front of his mates with a load of different effects.

Whilst these pedals are in the $30 range, It wouldn't suprised me if the cost of manufacture is below $7. Behringer as a company are hell to deal with as a supplier (I have a little experience, and heard lots from colleagues). They want everything as cheaply as possible, and if you can't match what price they want, they threaten to take the business elsewhere. - except they do it to all the manufacturers, which drives the market price lower and lower.

I wouldn't be suprised if in the volume that they produce in, that each of the pots and switches were $0.05 -> $0.10c each - surface mount devices are dirt cheap as well.

Anyway... I could go on and on (and I often do)...
Fact is, Behringer probably makes $5 on every unit built, and then allows the shop owner to make a further $10. Being this cheap, they will sell a lot - just because they are in the price range where people say "I'll try that, just to see how it sounds in my setup".

I don't think they'll challenge the likes of DanElectro - simply because people know they can trust a DanElectro on stage  

[petemoore]

They're designed to make it out of the showroom.
 If they make it that far, chances are the buyer will lose the sales slip in a week.
 Even if they don't 'extent' past the warranty period, another one can be stamped out to replace it cheeply enough.
 My B' mixer was nice, but the transformer 'hammock' thing got the plastic AC in jack. I don't know why the short side of the AC line goes from board to heavy transformer, the the twice as long side of the AC line goes from transformer to wall plug...'planned obscelescence?
 All perfectly reasonable...for the cost.
 I'd prefer though Having a more substantial connection method as opposed to trying to get by with a comparitively 'very weak chain link'.
 For PCB mounted jacks, I'm absolutely certain there are better choices than the 'leverage' inducing 1/4'' phone jack / plug.
 Another gotcha from 'accostumed to this method' [use of 1/4'' jacks] mandates [changing jack types would put the effects at a serious sales disadvantage], so 'design compromise' and weak points were chosen...works fine for a little while.

[MetalGuy]

First let me say that I don't own any Behringer products. Second I really don't understand why most of the people here are so much pissed at Behringer and sound like Boss dealers and/or distributors. If you like your Boss pedals stick to them but since nobody /or only a few/ still owns any of these new pedals how can you comment on how crappy, bad sounding and short lived they are?
Don't forget also that some people can't afford to pay the absurd amounts of money for a Boss pedal especially if you can get a rackmount multieffects processor for the price of a single Boss pedal.
So let's test these pedals first and then give opinions.
As far as China is concerned the things are not so "surface mount" so let's not get politics involved here.

[JimRayden]

Hm, I have noticed that I'm feeling cooler and cooler about these pedals. I was pissed at the first design, afterwards I was just pissed at them. Now I just don't care, since I propably won't have anything to do with them in the next few decades. Maybe when one jumps into my way, I'll check it out. Propably not. This thread is getting long anyway. The next one who posts, better have some actual experience with these pedals.

Thank you, good night.

----------
Jimbo

[vanhansen]

First let me say that I don't own any Behringer products. Second I really don't understand why most of the people here are so much pissed at Behringer and sound like Boss dealers and/or distributors. If you like your Boss pedals stick to them but since nobody /or only a few/ still owns any of these new pedals how can you comment on how crappy, bad sounding and short lived they are?
Don't forget also that some people can't afford to pay the absurd amounts of money for a Boss pedal especially if you can get a rackmount multieffects processor for the price of a single Boss pedal.
So let's test these pedals first and then give opinions.
As far as China is concerned the things are not so "surface mount" so let's not get politics involved here.

Find a rackmount effects processor that costs $39.99, or $69.99 or $89.99.  That's the street price for many Boss effects brand new.  They aren't absurd prices at all.  The are just right IMO.  Sure, some of the delays and reverbs will run around $119 or $129 but I know what I'm getting and know that I can stomp the crap out of it for years and it will work.

I haven't tried the pedals but I wouldn't count them out for using just at home or in a pinch.  I just wouldn't rely on them for the main pedalboard.

[ragtime8922]

http://images.misupply.com/products/original/Boss/21767.jpg

http://www.behringer.com/BO100/BO100_medium.jpg

I mean... COME ON!!!! This is so damn rediculous!!!!

Last I heard they were being sued over that.

There are way stronger cases than a simple look-a-like issue. I mean imagine if a company sued another company for using a hammond 1590B.
I could see if Boss used some sort of "style" in there paint job but since they use simple one background color and one font color then that portion is thrown out. That leaves the enclosure. Definite moral issue but shouldn't stand legally.

Does anybody know what the difference in component/part quality is? If it's even close to being the same than no wonder. Boss' profit margin is being exploited.

EDIT: Oops, didn't realize this was a 7 pager. Comments were made based on the 1st page.

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Didn't you guys notice that JimRayden wrote:

The next one who posts, better have some actual experience with these pedals.

Why are you guys posting anything if you don't have any actual experience with the pedals??

Oh, wait, that's right, it's an open forum and anybody can say whatever they want!

Carry on!

Fp

[petemoore]

playing 'devils advocate'...
 Actually I haven't heard one way or the other whether it's jacks in PCB or not..I just assumed it must be.
 RG once wrote about what is liked pedal features..."Dependability...anything else".
 It's like skinny tires on a bike that's gonna see lots of abuse not seen on a smooth track it was designed for...you get a few flat tires and bent rims and start thinking that beefier spinners for the thing is what is needed for the application.
 BTW I bought that beh' board, and it still works, but I have to be careful about where the ACin jack is broken...I took one look and decided repairing it would be a 'hard messy hack'. I suppose I could look for another 'delicate' replacement jack...anyone know about refixing 'disposable jacks'?
 Nevermind, I've read about that, and it didn't look very pretty.

[A.S.P.]

"Model VD1" (anybody said that sounds like a threat?)

ordered late august in germany - arrived today

chassis-bottom: 1.3mm steel;
chassis-top: 1.5mm aluminum;

fixed together by 8 screws;
removable plastic battery-door:
in-/out jacks (closed type) screwed to chassis;
both carry one of the 3 PCBs,

this one also carries a DC-jack (not screwed),
a "polarity"-diode and a (conventional) load-electrolytic,
the battery-clip wires,
and a 4-pole connector,
which "busses" to the "main audio board"
(2.2cm by 8.3cm),

which is attached to the chassis-top by 2 brassy 2cm standoffs
with 2 screws at the top, and 2 at the PCB.

A 2nd connector (5-pole) goes to the 3rd PCB,

which carries a tiny plastic PCB-mount DPDT pushbutton,

which is actuated by a chassis-screwed metal foot-activator,
these latter devices fixed together by an adventurous looking
plastic cage with spring.
The main audio PCB carries 3 pots (alps 9mm D-shaft)
whose slide-off knobs guide the shafts in the chassis-holes,

an LED, named standoffs
and connectors on the component-side,

and on the solder-side:

24 resistors,
13 caps,
4x 1N4148,
4x BC846, all SMD...

with R1 obviously hand-soldered in.....

[petemoore]

As far as China is concerned the things are not so "surface mount" so let's not get politics involved here.
  Politics involves 'Itself' in everything, why should we recognize being told to ignore that...?
  ok...Because were trying to focus here on stompboxes...ok
  Everything has to do with everything IMO...

[RDV]

Then I suggest they eat and drink a little less so that they are not so heavy on their equipment
Stephen

I just take a stool(make up your own joke).



RDV

[A.S.P.]

pic-porn added - just scroll back... 

[Caferacernoc]

My god man, how does the Big Muff copy SOUND?       ;-)
Also, circuit wise, is it a big muff?  Thanks.

[A.S.P.]

dunno - just bought it for educational purposes:
to see if it was neccessary to "design" such:

a huge enclosure around "just another fuzzbox"...
(only to give it a famous look, and to profit from the "muff identity").