Idea! Floor board effect controller

[wui223]

I am thinking of something like effect controller which can:
1. choose which effect to bypass
2. choose which effect to work in sequence order

Generally, it works like this. A number of effects are connected to the controller, then we can choose to bypass/enable them in order. Coz sometimes we would need the effect in a certain sequence in the effect chain, which is not easy to swap using normal connecting method unless we use alot A/B box.

Is it pratical to build it? I dont think it is possible w/o the implementation of PIC controller. Anyone got any idea?

[R.G.]

You don't read GEO, do you?

[niftydog]

If you're thinking what I'm thinking you're thinking, I've been down this path. It started around june last year and looks like it'll be at least the end of this year before I even have a working prototype.

Still, you don't have to go as full on as I have with the design. There are some posts around here where I've discussed my project with some others... let me see now... here's the first post I made back when I was working the concept.

[Penguin]

You don't read GEO, do you?

lol thats obvious isn't it  jj

[wui223]

What do u guys mean? Which article are u refering to? I didnt read up the whole web site of GEOFX

[R.G.]

Try the "any order" programmable footswitch article, "Remotely switchable footswitch system" and more to the point "ASMOP". There's even a proposed user interface for how the user would tell the controller what effect to put where in the chain, which is a huge problem. The switching by itself is easy.

[wui223]

RG, do the foot switch controller shown in GEOFX is what i need? I dun really get the working method and concept of that project

[Rochey]

I haven't read the geofex article, but from what i can gather it should be a relatively simple thing to do.

From what I can gather, you would need a bunch of 'bus bars' and then mulitplexors that can 'pick' from any of the busses to the input of each pedal, or the output for that matter.

Using a small microcontroller (PIC, MSP430 etc) you could simply spit out a serial stream telling the switches/relays when to switch on and off etc. In my head, that's not a very complex thing to do - honest.

You can get started dev kits for processors at http://www.olimex.com -- they are a lot cheaper than buying from the semiconductor manufacturers. In fact, if you look at MSP430, I can tell you now that TI has software examples of clocking data in and out of the serial port to control external hardware.

All it needs is time to really think through the requirements and time to sit down and play with a processor.

sounds cool  :lol:

[Arno van der Heijden]

You don't read GEO, do you?

This is really Off Topic, but I was just wondering where the name GEO comes from? Is it an abbreviation, or does it refer to something specific?
Just curious....  

[R.G.]

The name GEO comes from "Guitar Effects Oriented" web page. Really novel, high techie stuff, eh? I figured whatever I did would be reduced to an Acronym anyway, so I did one that was easy to say.

From what I can gather, you would need a bunch of 'bus bars' and then mulitplexors that can 'pick' from any of the busses to the input of each pedal, or the output for that matter.

Ding! A winner. Actually I have an unpublished design for a nonblocking crosspoint switch (any input to any output, any order) controlled by a PIC, made entirely of eight CD4051 8:1 multiplexers on a single sided board. This gives you the capability of zero to eight effects loops in any order at any time. There are some audio/video crosspoint switch chips available now (gosh! how did I know?) but they're hard to get and are almost all in Quad Flat Pack SMD packages.

The bottom line is that the function (N-of-M, any order) is not hard. It really is A Simple Matter Of Programming. The truly hard part is how to set it up so a not-really-very-smart guitarist can understand what it's doing and use it on stage without accidentally kicking in the "Borders bookstore" setting when what he wanted was "Death to the World" lead tones.

I truly believe that the user interface is what is keeping things like this off the market. It's not the hardware - it's the people ware. A user has simply got to understand it without taking a three day course that they forget after a few beers.

RG, do the foot switch controller shown in GEOFX is what i need? I dun really get the working method and concept of that project

Honestly, you need to at least be able to understand the several footswitch projects at GEO before you dig into designing one. There is a lot of basic info laid out for you there. It may not be *exactly* what you need, which is why it's not a full project with PCB layouts and so on, but you do need to understand it.

[wui223]

Yeah u guys are really cool. From where should i start? I have computer programming background C++ i mean. But PIC is really a new thing for me. I agree with u , the software and interface is really important

[Lee_ranaldo]

the last year i made a system like that
a foot controler with pic an 16f84A one
with the olimex pic-eprom serial programmer


it's not difficult, the simple idea is to replace the flip-flops in the R.G. desing to an programmable one
if you know how to control LCD displays with C++ it's easy with pic.

if you want to display the setup or patch..

[wui223]

Can u give me a guide how to achieve this? I am totally blind folded in PIC

[Rochey]

The bottom line is that the function (N-of-M, any order) is not hard. It really is A Simple Matter Of Programming. The truly hard part is how to set it up so a not-really-very-smart guitarist can understand what it's doing and use it on stage without accidentally kicking in the "Borders bookstore" setting when what he wanted was "Death to the World" lead tones.

I've scratched my head about this for a while now, and you're right. The biggest issue with any programmed effect etc. is the use interface.
- How the musician programs the chains in advance
- How the musician recalls programs
- How the musician can sees which effect is chained into the next.

I've seen the use of "nokia" type screens in DIY (as they are cheap 'n cheerful). However, once again we come back to the evil nightmare of programming  

[R.G.]

I've seen the use of "nokia" type screens in DIY (as they are cheap 'n cheerful). However, once again we come back to the evil nightmare of programming

Yep. It's very much like the VCR programming problem - you have to make an activity that humans grasp intuitively but sloppily reduce to something a machine can understand with great precision. The human may not be *willing* to study something that they think they already understand. The interface has to match how the human thinks of the problem, or people will simply refuse to do it.

And let us face it, the people here may be the brightest selections of guitarists. I've met some guitarists that ...um... are not overburdened with the weight of intellect, however well they play the instrument. You want even these player-savants to be able to use the stuff.

Actually, I have come up with a fairly intuitive user interface for a mulit-function programmable looper/selector. Since this is one place where there is significant commercial potential, it's the subject of a forthcoming patent application. If all goes well, you'll see it in the market in due course.

[David]

I've met some guitarists that ...um... are not overburdened with the weight of intellect, however well they play the instrument. You want even these player-savants to be able to use the stuff.

Wow!  A stunning piece of verbal circumlocution!

The program code IS the issue.  I find it hard to wrap my mind around writing code for this tiny chip when I'm used to great, sweeping creations to process thirty million insurance claims at a time.  The paradigm shift was so difficult I had to put the whole thing on hold...

...for now.  :twisted:

After fighting with the convoluted user interface of a GT-3 for the past six weeks, I'm ready to take another crack at it.  Every time I try to do something new on that processor, I wind up asking myself the same litany of questions:

Huh?
Why CAN'T I do that?
Why the heck did they design it this way?
Why did I buy this thing, anyway?

[David]

With all the digital heat being generated around here lately, it's time to thaw this thread out again.

Given that the user interface of such a system is difficult to implement, here's an alternative:  Let's pull out the "programming" functionality and put that on a host computer (You know, Mac, Linux, Win, etc).  Let THIS host program communicate with and download patch information to the controller via a serial interface, USART, ICSP or whatever.  The only interfacing the controller does with the user then becomes patch selection.

For that matter, we could use MIDI or whatever MILAN became...

Hey, Peter!  What IS MILAN called now, anyway?

[R.G.]

Been there. Got the T shirt. That is indeed easy to do.

I decided to not use the PC as a front end to an effects switcher because it's just about as hard to program, and costs a bit more, as well as being a target for theft at gigs.

[moody07747]

I haven't read the geofex article, but from what i can gather it should be a relatively simple thing to do.

From what I can gather, you would need a bunch of 'bus bars' and then mulitplexors that can 'pick' from any of the busses to the input of each pedal, or the output for that matter.

Using a small microcontroller (PIC, MSP430 etc) you could simply spit out a serial stream telling the switches/relays when to switch on and off etc. In my head, that's not a very complex thing to do - honest.

You can get started dev kits for processors at http://www.olimex.com -- they are a lot cheaper than buying from the semiconductor manufacturers. In fact, if you look at MSP430, I can tell you now that TI has software examples of clocking data in and out of the serial port to control external hardware.

All it needs is time to really think through the requirements and time to sit down and play with a processor.

sounds cool  :lol:

great idea with the bus bars...
reading the first few posts i thought it would be a hard project to make but after reading your post i can see plans popping into my head about the layout/wiring allready.

i dont know anything about programming though so thats out of my build list allready  lol.

[R.G.]

Hmpfh. It looks like I did publish the switch matrix.

Here it is:


and here's the PCB layout draft, from 2001 - http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/ASMOP/asmop1d.pdf