HELP: WHat is the proper replacement 4 a CE-5 BBD IC chips?

[ultradust]

I need help coz I have a Boss CE-5 n I've got it busted and produces some crazy farting sound... so I checked it up and traced that the BBD MN3007 is the one needs replacing. I browsed the internet to look for the BBD replacement and found out that there is a new line of reissued Panasonic BBD's such as MN3102 n MN3207. Rave reviews said that it is way much better sounding than the MN3101 Clock driver n MN3007 BBD's. So here's my problem... As I'm new to electronics can anyone help me if I can replace the stock MN3101 w/ a MN3102 and the stock MN3007 w/ a Panasonic MN3207? Will it work? Or will it worsen the problem? Will it improve the sound or will I destroy my Boss CE-5 completely?  Please... Any suggestions will be of great help and will be very much appreciated. THanks n GOdbless...  

[bioroids]

Hi

you cant replace the MN3007 with the MN3207, they are not pin for pin compatible. The same with the MN31XX. If you wanted to, you can adapt them somehow, as they perform the same function, but I dont think there's place for tweaking inside a CE-5.

But I dont think it will sound any better! On the contrary, you'll loose a good amount of headroom if you somehow manage to switch the circuit to use MN3207. Where did you hear rave reviews about this??

My advice is, get a MN3007 and get it going. What is good about the MN32xx series is that they are cheaper!

Are you sure the problem is in the BBD, though?

Luck!

Miguel

[ultradust]

I've read the reviews somewhere (I guess in visual sound Website) about the vintage choruses/flangers have the MN3102/MN3207 instead of the MN3101/MN3007 BBD's as they were discontinued (and now reissued again). I'm new in effectronics thingy that's why I don't have any Idea that t'was not Pin by pin compatible.  :? :roll: Btw, I tested the thing w/ a freeze spray to isolate the problem and when I sprayed the BBD it starts working again... But just for a very short while. THanks for the good advice... I guess I better go get myself some MN3007's. thanks again.  

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

I tested the thing w/ a freeze spray to isolate the problem

?

Fp

[gez]

I need help coz I have a Boss CE-5 n I've got it busted and produces some crazy farting sound...

When there's a signal present or at all times?  If the former then the BBD could just be misbiased.  There should be a trimpot to adjust bias somewhere on the board.  Would be wise to check this out before you start replacing things.

[Mark Hammer]

I need help coz I have a Boss CE-5 n I've got it busted and produces some crazy farting sound... so I checked it up and traced that the BBD MN3007 is the one needs replacing. I browsed the internet to look for the BBD replacement and found out that there is a new line of reissued Panasonic BBD's such as MN3102 n MN3207. Rave reviews said that it is way much better sounding than the MN3101 Clock driver n MN3007 BBD's. So here's my problem... As I'm new to electronics can anyone help me if I can replace the stock MN3101 w/ a MN3102 and the stock MN3007 w/ a Panasonic MN3207? Will it work? Or will it worsen the problem? Will it improve the sound or will I destroy my Boss CE-5 completely?  Please... Any suggestions will be of great help and will be very much appreciated. THanks n GOdbless...  

Production of the MN3207 came after the MN3007, and while it could run from a lower supply voltage, and also be run at somewhat higher clock speeds (though this is far more important for a flanger than for a chorus), it was not dramatically "better" sounding than a 3007.  In fact, some would argue that being able to run an MN3007 from a higher supply voltage (as high as 15v) permitted designs that would give better sound than an MN3207-based design running at 9v and less.  Whichever one people *think* is better, you cannot just plug one into the socket of the other and have it work.  In spite of their many similarities, there are some important differences.  You can find technical information about each of these chips by entering their number and "pdf" like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=MN3007+pdf&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Sadly, both of these chips are no longer in production by Matsushita for several years now, although there is a Chinese company making a replacement for the MN3207.  Steve Daniels at Small Bear Electronics (smallbearelec.com) carries all of these chips (when he can find supplies of them) and will ship around the world.  He has been faithfully serving this group for several years and has an excellent reputation for fast service, good selection, and fair prices.

The other thing you can do is keep an eye out for broken karaoke machines.  Any of the cheap little plastic units with an "echo" control and a 6" speaker may very likely have an MN3007 or MN3207 in it (maybe even 2).  Most people will probably throw the unit out because the tape transport or some other mechanical feature is broken and not worth repairing.  The electronics may still be in perfect shape.

[ultradust]

the thing is... whenever I apply the freeze spray on the BBD chips it always seem to work normally again... But as I've said earlier... It's just shortlived. As if whenever the BBD overheats, it produces some crazy oscilating crazy farting sound??? Btw, is there a right way too solder and desolder the new BBD chips? Coz I've read in some reviews that some IC's were heat sensitive???

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

whenever I apply the freeze spray on the BBD chips it always seem to work normally again

How did you come up with that? it seems rather unorthodox... Something like voodoo magic... or is there any scientific ground on which that 'freeze test' is based on?

I'm just very curious.

Fp

[bioroids]

It's a known test for discovering failures caused by heat. That's why they make those freeze sprays. I've never used it anyway.

Luck!

Miguel

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

For some reason I find it hard to believe. But that's just me. I'm a bit sceptical.

Just how much heat can be build up in an MN3007 to make it not work?

Sorry, to me it doesn't make sense.

Fp

[ultradust]

THanks for the Tech info & for the datasheet links mr Mark Hammer... Btw, this is my first effects pedal repair (coz' this is my 1st busted pedal). That's why this is my 1st opportunity to fix things up all by myself.


How did you come up with that? it seems rather unorthodox... Something like voodoo magic... or is there any scientific ground on which that 'freeze test' is based on?


I told my friend about my problem that whenever I use my CE-5 it seems to work just fine for a while about half an hour use THen it starts to go crazy again. He told me to use a freeze spray over the IC's, resistors, Fet's etc one by one to isolate the problem. He told me maybe some parts on my CE-5 stops working whenever it overheats.

[gez]

the thing is... whenever I apply the freeze spray on the BBD chips it always seem to work normally again...

Try reflowing the solder joints.

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Try reflowing the solder joints.

That sounds much more reasonable.

I've troubleshooted quite a few boxes, and I've never had to resourse to freezing components!

Fp

[gez]

Try reflowing the solder joints.

That sounds much more reasonable.

I've troubleshooted quite a few boxes, and I've never had to resourse to freezing components!

Fp

Yeah, just a guess but it might be a poor joint and the spray, causing the metal to contract, makes it right again until room temp. warms it up again.

[ultradust]

How to do the "reflowing method"? :roll: [/quote]

[Mark Hammer]

There are a few things about this thread that confuse and disturb me.  One is that the CE-5 was released long after production of the MN3007 had stopped and it (the CE-5) is still treated as a current production item by Boss.  It's one thing if a small boutique house makes a pedal using a discontinued chip and does not expect to ever make more than 5000 of them.  It is quite another when it's a current production item by one of the largest pedal manufacturers in the world and they expect to keep selling 10's of thousands.  Besides, Boss switched from the MN3007 to the 3207 in virtually every one of their pedals that started off with the 3007, simply because it meant longer battery life and longer battery life is a big selling point (especially if it means the difference between a pedal you can try out in the music store and one that you can't try out because the battery is dead or dying).  

So, for two reasons I am highly suspicious of the MN3007 as being the actual chip the pedal is supposed to come with.  As mentioned earlier, other companies have started making MN3207 replacements, but NOT MN3007 replacements.  It could happen, I suppose, but you can see why I am suspicious and confused.  Incidentally, you ARE sure that this is a legitimate Boss pedal and not some sort of bizarre pirated one?  Or is it  a pedal you bought off someone who had it "repaired" by an underinformed person and they just decided not to tell you?

The second thing is that soldering techniques used in the fabrication of such pedals would be unlikely to produce solder joints needing reflowing.  If it EVER worked before, then clearly the problem is not one of solder joints.  If it  DOES need any joints reflowed, that would suggest to me that someone HAD tinkered with it.

My best guess here is that the pedal uses an MN/BL3207 and that an MN3007 was mistakenly inserted during a repair.  That would likely explain the heat buildup and responsiveness to local freezing.  I am sorry to be so suspicious, but you can see why.  Too many things just don't add up.

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Mark,

I have a CE5 and I can confirm that it uses the MN3007 and MN3101.

I've heard that the latest CE5s don't use the same circuit and that they are digital, but I haven't seen any like that.

I can take gut pictures and voltage readings if needed, too.

Fp

[TheBigMan]

Certainly the CE-5 WAS analog and BBD based initially.  The current production CE-5 is apparently designated CE-5(T) on the PCB but I haven't seen the guts of one.

I would however be slightly surprised if Boss has made such a major change as analog to digital and not changed the pedal designation though.  I had heard unconfirmed reports that the pedal was still analog but didn't use BBDs anymore, but I don't know of any way that could be done.

Anybody bought a CH-1 recently either?  Also BBD based, at least it was.  :?:

[Mark Hammer]

Mark,

I have a CE5 and I can confirm that it uses the MN3007 and MN3101.

I've heard that the latest CE5s don't use the same circuit and that they are digital, but I haven't seen any like that.

I can take gut pictures and voltage readings if needed, too.

Fp

Huh. :?

Well that just flies in the face of so much we know.  How the hell did they score that many MN3007's ? (well, I suppose if the order is big enough, ANY company will be happy to dig up the die and restart production, or make custom chips for you, like the BA662 and IR3109), and why would they use a chip like that knowing that the battery would crap out sooner?   Weird.  Sorry for the temporary distraction and suspicion. On the other hand, I guess we learned something - if you're (the) Boss, you can do what you want, right?

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

The CE-5 is one of those pedals that would sell more if the schematic was available online.

There wouldn't be speculation as to weather it's digital or analog.

Mine sounds quite ok. I prefer my diy small clone though. Still, I'd like to see that schematic because the CE5 has an eq that gives some nice possibilities... And of course, I'm too lazy to trace it.

The fact that the bbd IC's are scarce to us means nothing when you're (THE) boss. :twisted:

Fp