Eric Johnson effect

[george]

From my research and reading i would say it was a Chandler tube driver or a Tubescreamer into a Marshall Plexi Super Lead, for the live at austin city limits performance of cliffs of dover anyway. :wink:

I've noticed that some on this forum think that tube distortion just isn't happening unless it's at high voltage (150V or more) - the tube driver runs at approx 30V on the tube plates.

If it's good enough for someone as anal about tone as Eric it's good enough for me ...

[george]

polish your pedal shoe only with pure beeswax (or was it Hendrix earwax? I forget).

:wink:

do you mean the sole or the uppers? should I wear I different type of shoe on my pedal foot? what brand of shoe?

come on you gotta tell me man this is really important ....

[dv8]

Slightly OT, but

the first  time I saw EJ live probably in '87 or '88 he encored with "Are you Experienced" and played all the backward guitar parts note for note. WOW!

-brian

[bwanasonic]

Hi all,

  Does anyone know what kind of effect Eric Johnson used in the song Cliffs of Denver? That will be my next project. Thanks.

Hong

Don't get too caught up in the idea that you can use *effects* to get every sound you hear on recordings. Maybe there was say, a Chandler tube driver on that tune. Unless you are running it through a cranked tube amp at pants flapping volumes, don't bother. Many tones you hear are actually complicated equations of many factors, including pickups, effects, amp(s), microphones, recording console, and of course the ears and fingers of both the guitar player and the engineer. Change one part of the formula and it winds up completlely different. I was listening to a  radio program about the chemists who formulate artificial flavorings. One of the chemists mentioned that a difference of one or two parts-per-million of any of the chemicals makes the difference between the final result tasting like bananas, or tasting like sweat.  

All this is not to say you can't get a reasonable approximation of an *EJ like sound* with modest equipment. A smooth sustaining overdrive, and a dab of echo are the basic ingredients, and there are a million ways to skin that cat. It all depends on how exact you want to be, and how much you mind sweat on your banana  :twisted:

Kerry M

PS I reserve all rights to the pedal name "Sweaty Banana" ! :lol:

[mojotron]

The way that EJ uses the tube driver is really different too. There was a site where it listed exactly how he had several things setup - the site has disapeard. But I do remember that the drive was set to 3-5 and the volume was set at around 5 with the tone controls both at 0. With this set up on my Tube Driver what you actually get is a unity gain band pass filter with some overdrive. Which actually works really well infront of a crancked tube amp to beef up a strat sound without creating mud.

[SonicVI]

Can someone explain to me the appeal of EJ?  I've seen a few live performances and it was the most boring, undynamic, lifeless tone I can remember ever hearing.

[formerMember1]

Don't forget to take the bottom off your Fuzz Face, only use half-flattened zinc-carbon batteries, and polish your pedal shoe only with pure beeswax (or was it Hendrix earwax? I forget).

I think some of us are blessed with just good ears,    and some are blessed with highly sensitive ears.     And then some are blessed with insensitive ears.    

A fuzzface sounds totally different with a half-flattened carbon-zinc battery then a brand new carbon-zinc or any voltage alkaline battery.   :wink:

I could clearly hear a difference.  Others could too.  Then their is others who can't and think it is MOJO.  But then they are the ones with the crappy tone.  :wink:   And they hear it and think it is good tone.

I know I know "Different strokes for different folks" ...."I think sly and the family stone said that." hahahaha......  :lol:

Just my opinion.  

[Penguin]

From my research and reading i would say it was a Chandler tube driver or a Tubescreamer into a Marshall Plexi Super Lead, for the live at austin city limits performance of cliffs of dover anyway. :wink:

I've noticed that some on this forum think that tube distortion just isn't happening unless it's at high voltage (150V or more) - the tube driver runs at approx 30V on the tube plates.

If it's good enough for someone as anal about tone as Eric it's good enough for me ...

actually all the schemes for the tube driver use + and - 15v for the tube driver.   i also have the factory schematics for some of their other stuff as well.

[george]

From my research and reading i would say it was a Chandler tube driver or a Tubescreamer into a Marshall Plexi Super Lead, for the live at austin city limits performance of cliffs of dover anyway. :wink:

I've noticed that some on this forum think that tube distortion just isn't happening unless it's at high voltage (150V or more) - the tube driver runs at approx 30V on the tube plates.

If it's good enough for someone as anal about tone as Eric it's good enough for me ...

actually all the schemes for the tube driver use + and - 15v for the tube driver.   i also have the factory schematics for some of their other stuff as well.

I probably should have said 30V across the tube plates ... yes the difference between +15V and -15V is 30V. 

[Penguin]

yeah sorry i wasn't trying to be picky but there  was a chap who built one with about 30v+ straight up  thats why i stated that.  never tried that one.

[mojotron]

Can someone explain to me the appeal of EJ?  I've seen a few live performances and it was the most boring, undynamic, lifeless tone I can remember ever hearing.

Ya, while I lived in Houston, I saw him at the Boiler Room (a SRO small venue) and thought that his tone was a different than what you hear on recordings - closest to the Venus tone. (as a side note, I was right in front-center and EJ's mom was there kind of off to my left right in front of his Marshall cabs - I'm guessing she's pretty supportive of his work and that was cool..). This was in 2003, the whole show he used a strat from the 60's - 3 tone sunburst. It was a good show, he did a lot of the tunes from all of his recordings.

Anyway, I have friends that have seen him play in the Houston/Austin area from the very early days and they generally agree that EJ's live shows is where he seems to expore new sounds. And, I'm guessing that that is a natural progression from trying to evolve his sound.. I think everyone has their own taste in music, what I really like about his work is the mix of fusion and blues. Off of the Bloom CD I really like the Magnitized tune.

You have to love this new forum... Thanks Aron...

[george]

yeah sorry i wasn't trying to be picky but there  was a chap who built one with about 30v+ straight up  thats why i stated that.  never tried that one.

I guess you could do that with a charge pump or a 4049 set up as a voltage multiplier (like the PAIA stack-in-a-box)?

you do get more limited in the range of sounds the lower the voltage.  I had a 3-knob tube driver that took a 9V wallwart power supply, it sounded pretty good but it was hard to get good low-gain sounds out of it .... I built Aron's Shaka Tube which is very similar to the 4-knob tube driver (that uses 12VAC from an internal transformer) and I get very nice low gain tones out of it, as well as really smooth high gain sounds.

I play it through a Rivera R30-12 on the clean channel and it definitely does not sound inferior to the amps other "Marshall" sounding channel.

Just my $0.02 ....

[Penguin]

oh yes i am actually working on a SS power supply for high voltage for a interesting theory and product.  will disclose more when i find out if it works reliably like it has under controlled situations.

I too personally beleive good tube sound isn't acheived unless you get over 150  personally i run the tubes around 330v into the 100k resistors of a typical marshall type amp.  give s a different tone than going 100volts less.

not just gain but the voice. i love it...  its the best in the whole wide wide world..

[SteveB]

I saw him live recently & there were no hidden amps or FX pedals. Read last month's Guitar Player magazine, & it shows exactly what amps & FX he's using. The "thing" that is covered near his pedalboard is not a small combo amp, but is a rack with a mixer & a few rack mounted FX. All of his amps are miked (miced?) & those go into the mixer. All delays are handled with the miked signal in the sends of the mixer. a stereo mix of all the amps & FX are sent to the house mains. I forget if the mixer is powered, or if it goes to a power amp, but he has monitors onstage to hear the added delays. For "High Landrons" he had some flanging going on, too, similar to the studio cut. The flanging came from one of the rack units, or a flanger in the mixer aux. sends. After they were done, I walked up on stage & got a quick look at the controls on his lead Marshall, & they were exactly as reported in GP magazine.

His lead tone these days is a bit different from 15 years ago. Now, it's darker, & more fuzzy, with less sustain. The clean sounds are still great, but I prefer the lead sounds from back then. Most notably the sounds on  "Desert Rose"

To answer the original question, I'm afraid there is no box to dupe that sound of cliffs of Dover. It's a sum of the parts: guitar, OD pedal, delay & amp, & surely great technique. The volume has to be up there, too.

Steve

[Paul Marossy]

The clean sounds are still great, but I prefer the lead sounds from back then. Most notably the sounds on  "Desert Rose"

Yeah, that is a great tone. Great tune, too.

To answer the original question, I'm afraid there is no box to dupe that sound of cliffs of Dover. It's a sum of the parts: guitar, OD pedal, delay & amp, & surely great technique. The volume has to be up there, too.

I disagree. You should hear me now that I have my Eric Johnsonizer pedal! 

This is really the crux of the matter. Give two guys the exact same guitar, set up and conditions, and they are going to sound different for a myriad of reasons. Some guys do a respectable job of "replicating" tones in spite of that.

[Penguin]

hey steveb  question man.  the rack unit sounds like a very good explanation.. but i swear i could see what looked like an amp.. special rack type unit perhaps.?  not arguing just asking 

[SteveB]

hey steveb  question man.  the rack unit sounds like a very good explanation.. but i swear i could see what looked like an amp.. special rack type unit perhaps.?  not arguing just asking 

No problem & no arguments! A few years ago I saw him use trace elliot amps for the delay monitor, so it could be a small amp up there. But, I don't think it would be feeding the larger amps.

Check out this diagram, & this is pretty much how it's been the past few years. This tour he's back to 100w Marshalls & Twins, & no echoplex in the clean signal chain. Now the clean delays are also handled post mic.

 

Also,  check out this quote from the GP article:
“To keep my tone pure while allowing me to experiment, a lot of signal processing is now done from my personal stage rack. The miked signals from the four amps run through an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard mixer that passes the dry signals to the house mixer, and also to a series of processors in my rackâ€"an MXR Flanger/Doubler, a Lexicon MPX500 [Twin 1 delay], an Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man [Twin 2 delay], a Line 6 Echo Pro Studio Modeler [dirty rhythm echo], a Korg DRV3000 [lead echo], and a T.C. Electronic 2290 Digital Delayâ€"each set to a 100 percent wet mix. Every processor is routed to a specific mixer input, and I can control the amount of wet signal via each channel’s fader, or I can bypass the processor completely with custom-made on/off pedals. The stereo wet signal is routed to the house, and also to a pair of JBL EON10 G2 powered monitors, which I place just to my right side. In addition to keeping my root tone pure, putting most of the processing ‘post-mic’ ensures that neither the house mixer nor the audience get too much wet signal. Everybody’s happy!”

The rest of the article can be read here. http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?storycode=10270

Steve

[Doug_H]

I've gotten a pretty convincing "cliffs of dover" sound with an NPN Boost driving a tube amp.

Doug

[Paul Marossy]

I get a headache just trying to follow that diagram. 

[Penguin]

cool.  thanks for the layout. i need to look at more stars. rigs. lol..  i need to layout my own but right now i am still in the process of converting my Behringer [GASP did i say that out loud..  i got it on a trade and decided to keep it for the fx.]  into a tube amp. 

they did all the hard stuff for me.  like build a giant chasis with plenty of room for some el34's a tube amp transformer and output transformer  plenty of room indeed.  the first half went very well.  disconnected the preamp and only use the fx and the new tube preamp in it.

sorry rambling