Is it illegal to 'copy the fulldrive 2'?

[The Tone God]

Wasn't trying to argue (at least not in a combative way )

Oh I didn't think you were. Just sorta making things clear to everone else. Its all cool.

Andrew

[Ben N]

Hey, Brian,
That was very cool of you to share.  As some people have yet to learn, a little graciousness goes a long way.  BTW, terrific site.

As a general remark, not directed specifically at Brian, I think that small modders/builders ought to share--maybe not everything, but something--with the DIY community that nearly all of them drew some knowledge or inspit\ration from at one point or another.  Recognizing also that there is very little potential loss in it, since most folks around here aren't about to go into business, but also aren't going to pay someone to do what they enjoy doing for themselves.

JM2C, of course.
Ben

[bobbletrox]

You only have to make 6 component changes between this TS-808 schematic from GGG and Fooltone's Fooldrive schematic.  You could make the extra boost and switchy thing off board no problem.

Makes me wish I owned a Toob Screamer to try it out.

[wampcat1]

Hey, Brian,
That was very cool of you to share.  As some people have yet to learn, a little graciousness goes a long way.  BTW, terrific site.

As a general remark, not directed specifically at Brian, I think that small modders/builders ought to share--maybe not everything, but something--with the DIY community that nearly all of them drew some knowledge or inspit\ration from at one point or another.  Recognizing also that there is very little potential loss in it, since most folks around here aren't about to go into business, but also aren't going to pay someone to do what they enjoy doing for themselves.

JM2C, of course.
Ben

My pleasure -- I learn a ton here myself, so I'm glad to pass along some mods, and in fact, I give away quite a few through the newsletter at my site.
Anyway, thanks -- very nice of you!

Thanks,
Brian

[bobbletrox]

I just finished modding my SD-1 and it sounds great!  I didn't have a 0.022uF, and I had to sub 1n4001s for 1n4004s, but it still sounds great.  The 1uF caps in C2 and C3 sound great on bass as well.

I can't wait for someone to do the 6 part changes in their TS9 to see if it actually turns their pedal into a Fooltone.

[Carl]

      
D4   Germ. And 1n4001 series   
D5   1n4001   
D6   Germ. And 1n4001 series   

Note: Germ implies 1n34a germanium diode.

Thanks,
Brian

Does that mean that you replace D4 with two diods? And D6 with two? In total five diods in the clipping stage?

/Carl

[wampcat1]

I just finished modding my SD-1 and it sounds great!  I didn't have a 0.022uF, and I had to sub 1n4001s for 1n4004s, but it still sounds great.  The 1uF caps in C2 and C3 sound great on bass as well.

I can't wait for someone to do the 6 part changes in their TS9 to see if it actually turns their pedal into a Fooltone.

Glad to hear it!


Thanks,
Brian

[wampcat1]

      
D4   Germ. And 1n4001 series   
D5   1n4001   
D6   Germ. And 1n4001 series   

Note: Germ implies 1n34a germanium diode.

Thanks,
Brian

Does that mean that you replace D4 with two diods? And D6 with two? In total five diods in the clipping stage?

/Carl

Yes, that is correct.   :lol:  Odd, it seems, I know, but it works and sounds great!

Thanks,
Brian

[csj]

Stay away form the F-word altogether at all times.

You could pay homage though by naming the pedal something like

"Body Fluid Jewelry" - (the BFJ)

or

"Liquid Neckwear".

[Skreddy]

True, true -- the main advantage is purely from a marketing perspective, though. I don't turn it INTO a fulldrive2 -- I just make them sound as similar as possible.

Then you've just made Mike Fuller's case for him.  Legally, you're doing nothing wrong, because, strictly speaking, it's OK to make explicit comparisons between your product and someone else's product.  Witness the Coke and Pepsi challenges, etc.  

However, you just admitted that you're trading on the Fulltone brand name.  That's not morally or legally wrong, per se,  but do you see how Mike could take offense?

Myself, I try not to drop ANY company or product names in my advertising.  I freely talk about specific brand and model comparison in discussion groups and whatnot; just not in my 'official' marketing material.  Even if the company in question hasn't been making them like I make them for over 30 years, they still own the trademark for its name and any original artwork and layouts, etc.  So everything I do is strictly based on my own work product and does not infringe on anybody's company names, trademarks, or even look-and-feel attributes (although I like to make vague visual references).    I have NO desire to see any legal papers thrown in my direction .

But best of luck to you.  I'm sure you'll be fine.

[bioroids]

Off the topic, Skreddy nice info on your Digital Sucks article!

Miguel

[mrsage]

Whampcat- This is all just too funny. I say ROCK ON!  I agree w the others and call it the Fooltone II.

I do remember the wierd thread where Teese came here to defend his stuff

This made me think...

Maybe you could call it the FF-1?

[Ben N]

[quote="SkreddyThen you've just made Mike Fuller's case for him. [/quote]
Sorry, Marc, but I disagree.  You put yourself into the marketplace, you have to abide by its rules.  If the rules don't suit you, that is just too bad.  And the rules are that when you put a trademark out there, there are uses of it by a third party that are legal, just as there are other uses that are not.  (Notwithstanding all the true comments made earlier about abuse of process and the pressure a wealthy litigant can bring to bear.)  If comparisons are legal, that's it.  MF can throw his tantrums, but that is no reason Brian should not do what is legal and proper to market his product.  And it is completely bogus for MF to be sending around purported C&D letters. (Did I get that right, that it was MF, and not a lawyer, who sent that?)  And as for moral, I'm still waiting for the word "Orman" to appear somewhere in Fulltone's promotional stuff.
JM2C
Ben

[Hal]

how about simply e-mailing him back saying something like "I have consulted legal aid (the forum), and nothing I am doing is illigal.  If there are certain copyright violations, they must be pointed out in the C&D letter, and i would put an end to them immidiatly."

[The Tone God]

"I have consulted legal aid (the forum)...and nothing I am doing is illigal.

This forum is NOT a legal aid. This forum should not be brought into this in any way. All that has been stated here is personal opinions and nothing more. If the OP wants a legal opinion they can consult other sources.

If there are certain copyright violations, they must be pointed out in the C&D letter, and i would put an end to them immidiatly."

You could ask for clarity but why prolong things ? Just leave the Fulltone's name out of it. Its much cheaper and easier. Then he can't bitch about anything. Don't pick a pointless fight.

Andrew

[wampcat1]

[quote="SkreddyThen you've just made Mike Fuller's case for him.

Sorry, Marc, but I disagree.  You put yourself into the marketplace, you have to abide by its rules.  If the rules don't suit you, that is just too bad.  And the rules are that when you put a trademark out there, there are uses of it by a third party that are legal, just as there are other uses that are not.  (Notwithstanding all the true comments made earlier about abuse of process and the pressure a wealthy litigant can bring to bear.)  If comparisons are legal, that's it.  MF can throw his tantrums, but that is no reason Brian should not do what is legal and proper to market his product.  And it is completely bogus for MF to be sending around purported C&D letters. (Did I get that right, that it was MF, and not a lawyer, who sent that?)  And as for moral, I'm still waiting for the word "Orman" to appear somewhere in Fulltone's promotional stuff.
JM2C
Ben[/quote]


Orman should appear in 80% of all boutique pedal ads! hehe!

Yes, you are right, Mike just sent me an email, telling me to STOP using the words fulltone and fulldrive immediately.

Thanks,
Brian

[Hal]

we should all ping fulltone's webpage tonight, at 9:00.


it won't achieve anything, but might make us feal better.  j.k.

tone god - OBVIOUSLY he shouldn't write that this forum is legal aid, but if he says that he has consulted legal aid, i'll make MF realize that he shouldn't waste his time and money fighting a losing battle.  I guess my point wasn't clear.


I mean, alluding to fulltone works, but he _is_ using his name to sell mods.  Not that this is a bad thing, but i think he'll sell more stuff that way than just saying "These mods are really good!  They make it sound like a certain distortion that lots of people like and pay rediculus amounts of money for!"

good luck!

[StephenGiles]

All this arguement over a sodding fuzzbox...........that's all this is about.....a sodding fuzzbox of which there are hundreds........I really can't believe it!
Stephen

[mrsage]

Legally, you're doing nothing wrong, because, strictly speaking, it's OK to make explicit comparisons between your product and someone else's product.  Witness the Coke and Pepsi challenges, etc.

Good point...and the recent ads for DHL where they show a UPS truck and a FedEx truck sitting there.

So you can probably use Fulltone's name without a problem...you just might want to avoid directly saying it's a Fulldrive sound-alike.

You could probably easily say "Listen to these clips of a Fulldrive and my mod. I think my mod sounds better."

Rather than saying, "Here's my Fulldrive mod."

You could probably even say "We all know that both the Fulldrive and the SD-1 are variants of the TS-9. Well, listen to my mod and compare it to the sound of the Fulldrive."

That's like saying "We all know Pepsi and Coke are both colas. Try them both and see which you prefer. I prefer Coke, and even when people want to trade me their Pepsi for my Coke, I keep the Coke."

[The Tone God]

tone god - OBVIOUSLY he shouldn't write that this forum is legal aid, but if he says that he has consulted legal aid, i'll make MF realize that he shouldn't waste his time and money fighting a losing battle.  I guess my point wasn't clear.

I understood what you said. I was just making sure the board and the OP was protected. MF would not be wasting his time defending his trademark so I do thinking trying to call his "bluff" would be a waste. Refer to R.G.'s post as to why in either case.

I mean, alluding to fulltone works, but he _is_ using his name to sell mods.  Not that this is a bad thing, but i think he'll sell more stuff that way than just saying "These mods are really good!  They make it sound like a certain distortion that lots of people like and pay rediculus amounts of money for!"

Welcome to marketing in the world of music electronics.

All this arguement over a sodding fuzzbox...........that's all this is about.....a sodding fuzzbox of which there are hundreds........I really can't believe it!

Neither can I. lol.

Andrew