Is it illegal to 'copy the fulldrive 2'?

[jimbob]

Its funny that when ever i see someone use the abbreviation for MF i think "Mother F__ker. At least thats what comes to my mind.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

      
D4   Germ. And 1n4001 series   
D5   1n4001   
D6   Germ. And 1n4001 series   

Note: Germ implies 1n34a germanium diode.

Can anyone tell me the first person to try this? I know it is before my time..

[analogmike]

Hi,

Regardless of what you think about Mr. Fuller you have to respect his business and the law.

Michael Fuller not only has the right to protect his trademark, but the obligation. The laws in this country can be screwy:

Xerox provides a leading example. Editors who allow that company's
trademark to slip into lower case and become a verb, as in "He xeroxed
a copy of the Pentagon Papers," will get a cordial but serious letter
from the lawyers at Xerox saying in essence that "Xerox is not a verb
and please cease and desist from using it as such."

In fact, only two words appear under X in the alphabetized Associated
Press Stylebook and Libel Manual, the editor's main reference in such
matters. The first entry is Xerox, and the definition contains a
warning: "A trademark for a brand of photocopy machine. Never a verb.
Use a generic term, such as photocopy."

It's in that same AP Stylebook, which is revised annually in June, that
one learns such terms as escalator, cellophane, yo-yo and aspirin were
once trademarks or brand names that slipped into generic usage.

If a company doesn't legally protect its trademark with the vigilance
of Xerox or Rollerblade, it risks losing its identity to the
commonplace. Several brand names face this risk, consider: Kleenex for
tissue; Clorox for bleach; Windbreaker for a light jacket; Dumpster for
a large trash bin; Kitty Litter for cat box litter; and Frisbee for a
plastic toy disc, to mention a few. Or how about this bit of potential
confusion: fiberglass is a generic term; Fiberglas (with one s) is a
trademark.


Maybe this case is not exactly like that but I think Mr. Fuller's lawyer has told him to protect the trademark, better to be on the safe side.

There is a guy selling SD1 mods on ebay and in the title is ANALOGMAN RECIPE and he claims it's based on my SD1/808 mod. But it's not, a customer bought one and told me about the volume loss, and I can see from the circuit board that it's NOT the same. If I tell ebay, they will pull the ad as it uses keyword spamming by using my trademark in the title, and in the ad :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64417&item=3758344426

Looks like he just changed it from ANALOGMAN RECIPE to TUBESCREAMER MOD! Here was the older ads:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3750573153

He is stealing my trademark whether it's a good copy or not. If I report him am I a bad guy? Can you sell a Les Paul copy in the USA?

So don't be so quick to blame Mr. Fuller for doing what a successful businessman must do. Just remove the word fulltone or fooltone, people can figure it out without being so obvious.

Happy Halloween!!!!

[Mike Burgundy]

I bet that's the first time Mr Fuller has been compared to a six hundred pound gorilla.
That said, it might be a little anal, but he's very right to protect his name.  I got into a little trouble with the man some years ago - let's say I was young and silly-  on a *very* simple layout for a fuzz, and he rightly demanded me to pull his name off it. It was just there as a reference, but still. He was right to do so, and did not ask to pull the layout.
He's every bit right to demand cessation of your use of his name. He's got no right to object to your mods to get a "sound-alike", but he can object to you using his name. I'd stop doing that, or at least try if he will agree on a disclaimer (which I think he will never do). Fooltone is also a good option.
The fatboost thing is still very childish though. The circuit is public domain and has been for ages before Jack applied it to guitar use, but still... There's a LOT of difference between protecting your name/brand and pretending something is yours while it's not.

[jimbob]

Bullies of the world will ussually win. Wether or not there right or wrong. Golden rule- "He who has the gold rules." These thoughts can apply to everything from politics to simple guitar mods/effects.  Or what about, "Only the strong shall survive." Theres a million more...

[vanden]

All this arguement over a sodding fuzzbox...........that's all this is about.....a sodding fuzzbox of which there are hundreds........I really can't believe it!

this is more than just a "sodding fuzzbox"  btw thats a cool word.

this has to do with a large company picking on a small one man business. here in america this happens all too often. this may be why I am really angered by this.

what I would do is (this is not legal advice, just an opinion like all the posts here)  to just spend a couple of hundred bucks and have a 30 minute consultation with a laywer just to make sure what if anything you are doing wrong. I would just say his name once in passing instaed of blatantly saying youve "cracked" the code to his particular sound.  

I would write something like: "Hey kids, if you like the fulltone...you'll really like my new mod. introducing: blah blah blah."

and at the bottom of the page that has his name put:

"fooldrive 2" is a registered trade mark of mik fooler.

indyguitarist is not affiliated nor endorsed by mik fooler or fooltone electronics in anyway.

of course he still may choose to mess with you just out of spite and that will cost you at least a few grand to take it to court. If i were making some money I would go for it.   :x

[jimbob]

I agree with Vanden. Btw- welcome newbie to the best forum out there. Also the most professional. Sodding is a great word to replace "F_cking". What I can really appreciate is the British slang="Your bloody...ect.. "or little bugger" ...those ROCK! Lets assimilate! It can work!!! Better yet.. Lets annex Canada..We need more...  :wink:  We're America, enough is not enough!

[black mariah]

I swear this is the most hypocritical bunch I've seen when it comes to IP rights. On the one hand everyone wants to protect their own rights (witness the number of © symbols you see on the average effects page, and how the majority have legal disclaimers the size of my.... let's just say they're pretty long), but nobody wants anyone outside of 'the community' to do the same thing, as if IP rights apply only to those that don't make money off their pedals. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You HAVE to protect your trademarks or you lose them. There is no way around it. C&D orders are a NO COST way to do that. They mean basically nothing other than they can say, if you CONTINUE to violate their rights, "We told them to stop already." C&D's are warnings, nothing more.

Is it too much to just say "This mod makes an SD-1 sound like a high priced boutique pedal!" and leave it at that? Do you seriously have to needle ay anyone you don't find to be in compliance with your standards of what a pedal manufacturer should do? Why complain about the cost of Fulltone pedals, but not ZVex pedals?

How many people HERE, ON THIS FORUM, charge damn near as much as Fulltone does for their work, and don't even have a business to run? Is it somehow more acceptable to copy another person's work because you don't run a business, you just do it for some extra cash? Hell no, it's not.

To put it another way, how many would be uber-pissed if Fulltone came out with the "Metalyzer Thingy 2000: It sounds just like RDV's metal pedal thing, but we make it cheaper and with blue LED's! BLUE!"

[wampcat1]

I swear this is the most hypocritical bunch I've seen when it comes to IP rights. On the one hand everyone wants to protect their own rights (witness the number of © symbols you see on the average effects page, and how the majority have legal disclaimers the size of my.... let's just say they're pretty long), but nobody wants anyone outside of 'the community' to do the same thing, as if IP rights apply only to those that don't make money off their pedals. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You HAVE to protect your trademarks or you lose them. There is no way around it. C&D orders are a NO COST way to do that. They mean basically nothing other than they can say, if you CONTINUE to violate their rights, "We told them to stop already." C&D's are warnings, nothing more.

Is it too much to just say "This mod makes an SD-1 sound like a high priced boutique pedal!" and leave it at that? Do you seriously have to needle ay anyone you don't find to be in compliance with your standards of what a pedal manufacturer should do? Why complain about the cost of Fulltone pedals, but not ZVex pedals?

How many people HERE, ON THIS FORUM, charge damn near as much as Fulltone does for their work, and don't even have a business to run? Is it somehow more acceptable to copy another person's work because you don't run a business, you just do it for some extra cash? Hell no, it's not.

To put it another way, how many would be uber-pissed if Fulltone came out with the "Metalyzer Thingy 2000: It sounds just like RDV's metal pedal thing, but we make it cheaper and with blue LED's! BLUE!"

I actually think most here thinks its kind of funny that Mike F. is angry at me, yet every pedal in his lineup are copies. Blatant copies at that. And on top of that, he personally isn't fond of the diy types, at all. In fact, one might say he's a bit arrogant. Well, they MIGHT say it anyway.
I think that's more of what get's folk's goat more than anything else.

Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

Thanks,
Brian

[vanden]

Btw- welcome newbie to the best forum out there.

thanks   I've been a long time lurker and am constantly amazed by the amount of knowledge her. way over my head alot of the time.

You HAVE to protect your trademarks or you lose them

thats very true, but it doesn't give him the right to bully small competitors just cause he has the disposable cash to do so. especially when he's ripped off curcuits himself. I find it despicable.

How many people HERE, ON THIS FORUM, charge damn near as much as Fulltone does for their work, and don't even have a business to run? Is it somehow more acceptable to copy another person's work because you don't run a business, you just do it for some extra cash? Hell no, it's not.

I don't get this one, so if someone doesn't have overhead up the wazoo they have no right to build and charge what they want? so someone would have to get a commercial space, a few employees, ect ect. before they would have a right to go into business? according to you.

gee hewlett packard would disagrree with you. they started in there garage before the were able to afford a real space and go legit.

[vanden]

LOL I just had to share this with you guys.

a couple of years ago I saved fulltones fatboost webpage. here is an actual quote from the fatboost page. its since been changed. but i really find this interesting:

from fulltone.com last year

"The Fat-Boost gives you the feeling that your amp is cranked at living room volumes so clean playing is more dynamic, notes hold on longer without being distorted!  This F-ing slaughters that $350 "Greek booteek" clean boost" pedal you thought you were in love with -- at about half the price! "


LOL gee I wonder who he is insulting by saying "greek booteek" what a sodding hypocrite.

[The Tone God]

Lets annex Canada..We need more...  :wink:  We're America, enough is not enough!

Oh I'm not going to let that go. To quote the retardard cross-eyed chimp you gals pretend to hail as your leader, well until tuesday anyways, "Bring it on." We'll beat your asses...AGAIN!!! We'll give a lesson as to why the white house is white. In fact I think we should invade making the U.S. the third territory since you don't deserve to be a provence.   It would be the greatest miltary plan ever excuted in history. Lay low for 150 years then attack. I would love to see the response from the U.N. "Umm stop Canada. Please don't make the U.S like Canada. Oh no stop." I'm sure we will actually "be greeted as liberators" just by carrying our flu shots, medicare program, education, and beer.

Andrew

P.S. This is all in fun folks.

[jimbob]

Tone- Now that as funny !!!! I really needed that..It was really meant as a sarcastic joke AGAINST the US for all the siily shit we do. But to think, that if something like that did happen, that Canada (as respectfull and powerfull as she is) could make it againt  the US is really not worth even making a silly joke over. But, Id say we take Mexico. ...but we did that a while back..its now called Texas..HEHEHE..Im not saying its right..but...I love Canada.. I really wish it were part of America..Somehow it just makes since to me that way..And why not? (in a positive way)  :lol:  We are the land of the takers. And we even have the power to take. Many mindless Americans dont seem to mind what we do either...exmple-Iraq,

HAHHA  Were a super power! Canada would be easy. We'd offer a few beers, decent non-frnch food, and land that wasnt frozen most the year, and BAM= sale! BTW - I think our Reservist's units equal more than the "Royal Canadian...bla bla whatever..Seriously, though. I have to know you really dont think Canada could even come close to a battle against  the US?..I mean..come on..really..heheheh--BTw- this is all in good fun to me :wink:

[jimbob]

Im still laughing on this other thread!!!!!!!!

[puretube]

:lol:

black mariah: would you mind me naming one of my next fuzz-designs

the: Uber-Pisser  :?:



(would meet the english and the german speaking market...)

Ãœber-funny :lol:

[RDV]

To put it another way, how many would be uber-pissed if Fulltone came out with the "Metalyzer Thingy 2000: It sounds just like RDV's metal pedal thing, but we make it cheaper and with blue LED's! BLUE!"

On one hand I would be quite flattered that someone wanted manufacture my little pedal, but on the other hand I'd probably be pissed that someone was making money on it and not giving me any of it. He'd need to give some money to R.G. Keen also cause where I got the parametric. I plan to give him some myself if it ever took off, unlikely as that may be.

RDV

[Bent Penguin]

Just to throw a fresh log on this fire. I got a pedal in trade today and it came with a little Digitech book. The book is full of other pedal names as they talk about copping their tone. They capitalize them all and use ® symbols and then on the back page they just say "All trademarks are property of their respective companies".

Course they may actually have permission and I'm sure a few lawyers went over it but the important part is I now have an octaver

[black mariah]

thats very true, but it doesn't give him the right to bully small competitors just cause he has the disposable cash to do so. especially when he's ripped off curcuits himself. I find it despicable.

Your lack of understanding makes the sides of my brain want to touch each other. This has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CIRCUITS. This is about NAMES, PERIOD. Fulltone wants to make it perfectly clear that they do not approve of this use of their name, and they have every right to say as much. Whether this particular instance falls under one of the few fair use provisions is up for debate, but even that isn't the point.

I don't get this one, so if someone doesn't have overhead up the wazoo they have no right to build and charge what they want? so someone would have to get a commercial space, a few employees, ect ect. before they would have a right to go into business? according to you.

WTF are you talking about? Go back and read some of the posts complaining about Fulltone's prices, then reread my statement. Correlate the two, then we'll talk.

I actually think most here thinks its kind of funny that Mike F. is angry at me, yet every pedal in his lineup are copies.

Irrelevant. As has been noted many MANY times before, circuits are not copyrightable, trademarkable, and a pain in the ass to get patented. Without those protections, or with those protections expired, the works become PUBLIC DOMAIN. That means copy or not, anyone can use those circuits for any reason they want. His beef is with your use of the term FULLTONE, not with your use of circuits.

black mariah: would you mind me naming one of my next fuzz-designs

the: Uber-Pisser

As long as you make it sound like me. Abrasive, aggravating, and hard to comprehend without the assistance of a psych 101 textbook. :lol:

[puretube]

 it will exactly have those attributes...  :lol:

[Torchy]

Hmmm ... I'm going to market my "Li'l Bastard" booster pedal with EVH graphics, a blue LED and the tagline "see, I left DC on the gain pot so it 'crackles' just like somebody elses booster" ....

Actually thats not a bad idea ...  :oops: