4049 circuit tuning (or, general stompbox filters question)

[JimRayden]

I just recieved the unbuffered 4049 I ordered and started experimenting right away. I did get some really good power chord tones out of it. But the overall tone is still tight and fuzzy. If I cut some more highs in the output, it just starts muffling the sound. How to loosen the distortion up?


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Jimbo

[petemoore]

  Here's what Mark Hammer suggested, and I did...
  wire up a Tube Sound Fuzz [2 stages] drive it with a booster   
  I used an LPB with 5088...but I'm about to build another one, slightly smaller caps for less bass, and use a Jfet booster to drive it with.
  Works great, but for some reason today mine stopped working right...

[JimRayden]

That's basically what I did. I have played around with the low gain channel of the DoubleD, without the output buf.

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Jimbo

[petemoore]

  I built another TSF, this time with sockets, the first one sounded so good and died, I decided I better build another one...I'll go see what's up with the first one, does'nt figure, working too good the one day, then just weak near gatey the next...
  Sounds just great to my ears with the two stages, like a really clean tube amp...I used only 100k pot for gain, might be a little small, I can always bump it up some.

[gez]

If I cut some more highs in the output, it just starts muffling the sound. How to loosen the distortion up?Jimbo

One thing Mark often suggests is sticking a small cap in the feedback loop, parallel to the feedback resistor.  Just a little filtering in each stage will prevent 'muffling' but should smooth things out.

PS  Check the archives.  Most of your questions have probably been covered by it all.

[JimRayden]

One thing Mark often suggests is sticking a small cap in the feedback loop, parallel to the feedback resistor.  Just a little filtering in each stage will prevent 'muffling' but should smooth things out.

Already done.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/doubled.html

I'll search around.

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Jimbo

[Mark Hammer]

Opinions and mileage vary, but I'm of the opinion that when you have several cascaded clipping stages, it's best to keep a tighter rein on the bandwidth of the earlier stages than later ones.  The reasoning is that each stage simply produces harmonics of whatever it was fed.  If there was too much harmonic content in stage N, then stage N+1 produces harmonics of THOSE harmonics, not all of which are desirable.  When it comes to distortion, it is the balance of harmonics that is critical to tone, not simply having more of them.

So, for instance, limiting bandwidth in stage N to 2.5khz, stage N+1 to 4khz, and stage N+2 to 6khz, might not be such a bad strategy to pursue.  Assuming there is a treble cut capacity to follow that last stage, there will be enought treble bite to go round, and enough means to reduce it.

Of course, that is all about top end, and nothing to do with bottom.  I think you need to call on someone else for that sort of discussion.

[Stevo]

To me both the Red Llama and the tube sound fuzz are very desirable sounds??? The setting needs to be around half to sound good. The filter caps do well 50pf in the first stage and I used 150pf in  the second on my red Llamas.. I know that these chips are very static sensitive in fact you can zap a stage if you are holding your solder gun and hold the chip.. I have burnt out a chip by mishandling it!! Try different chips for better sound. I used NTE 4049 and some fairchild non leaded types and have real nice sound.. It is not clean and does seem to fuzz up in a sense on picking attack but you can really have fun with the tone coming out. The scheme is easy and you need to tie the inputs like it displays in the scheme! Try this circuit it is cool I think..I think you can get a good sound out if it is done tight and all is right!! A note the Red Llama has more highs due to the different cap values..

[JimRayden]

I have an extremely great low string sound, power chords and such. But the high notes just don't make it. No damn sustain to talk about. Though they don't sound bad, they just sound too low gain. I've been trying to cut the bass at the front of the circuit and boost it at the end but the highs just don't make it. Maybe I should add another inverter in the end. Or an end buffer.

This thing is fun to play around with!

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Jimbo

[Stevo]

Have you just tried the RED LLama because mine sustains seems forever!!  I am going to do one with a jfet booster and lower gains on the two inverters like someone else was saying.  It is fun but not a clean sounding "distortion" really like an over the top overdrive with tube like characters...Be careful handling the chips for static they will zap!

[JimRayden]

Can't seem to get my hand on a schemo...

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Jimbo

[Sgt_Rutters]

This might be a good thread to ask this in.  I just built a Red Llama clone...however it won't work, I'm not getting anything at all.  The voltages I'm getting are 5.7v for thechip pins connected to the 1k resistor then to  V+ and most everything else reads right at 2.55v  Does this sound right?  I've tried my best to eliminate any wiring problems, using MartyB's Layout in the gallery.  Only other suspect is the chip, mine is labelled CD4049UBCN so it is unbuffered. 

[Stevo]

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/SteveC/llama2?full=1
Try this it is a really nice sounding tone ..I play it ever night now for a little while really sings
For the voltages on the other thread no that does not sound right you should have close to nine volts on those pins I think the 1k resistor just lowers the batt. a little to save voltage and for some noise check your batt. and follow the voltage where does it drop like that?

[petemoore]

  Yupp thats the one..
  I don't know whappened to my first one, maybe I'll debug...
  Second one sounds great too though and has cap sockets !!!
  I'm about to add the booster, [Jfet S.blaster],  on the board to the front end, I may just add 3pdt And DPDT, one BP switch per circuit...
'  The circuit alone sounds about too cool, with booster even more cool, then put Fuzz in front etc...seems of course also to work well with others...trying to get it going to the point of being a regular' on the pedalboard...

[petemoore]

  Now there it is...absolutely lovely, unless you're looking for actual Fuzz, which as stated is 'ok'...cool 'n stuff but where the 4049 really shines is in it's abitlity [it seems] to produce a very nice 'basic' tube type tone, internally.
  This time with Jfet Stratoblaster, J201, NTE458, MPF102, 2n5457, J201...output caps seriesed, .1uf into .022uf, into TSF, .022uf incap, .033uf between stages, .1uf output cap, and a .018uf on pins 14/15...[so far the feedback cap seems optional, as these stages have smooth high end content, and surprizing is that more high end content isn't gone with a 'large' cap across a 1 meg like this...hafta recheck that].
  Also as stated this circuit is lots of fun to mess with.
  Very good player...
  I think if I wanted a variable cap it'd probly be the Jfet stage output cap, those two mentioned.

[Mark Hammer]

What you've described is more or less Frank Clarke's Hot Harmonics.

[Sgt_Rutters]

All right, I rechecked everything.  My battery is showing 9.5v.  All my V+ connections are measuring right at 5.68v, only thing between them and the V+ is the 1k resistor.  Other than that most all other connections are reading 2.55v still, including all the lugs on the gain pot.  Ground and the volume pot lugs all read 0V.  So I should be getting right aabout 9v on pins 1, 5, 7, 9, and 11?

[Sgt_Rutters]

Well I just thought I'd try and measure it without the plug into the input, seeing as how it's wired to shut the battery off without it like a normal effect.  This is weird, now I'm showing right at 9v on the V+ side of everything if I measure from the stereo lug of the jack.  Now when I measure from the ground point it shows about 1.3v to the V+ connections.  Hmm, maybe it is just a wiring problem after all...

[petemoore]

  Hadn't really looked at that one, purely a coincidence I assure you...it does sound great.
  I've built at least a few Stratoblasters, and some of them got into a box as pre-fuzz or od driver.
  After alot of gain stages tried as a 'pre-driver', the Stratoblaster has frequently been of good use in the applications.
  I'm quite familiar with what it does, and know the Sparkleboost, Fetzer, and other Jfet boosters.
  I chose Jfet because it's smooth, and not unlike a CMOS stage [compared to a ge or si, opamp or Mosfet], Mosfet was considered, Jfet Stratoblaster stage is a snap to wire up, and as predicted has more than enough gain, in fact a stop resistor on the SB's 100k would make it not so much for this application...it's adjustable. I have a separate Mosfet booster.
  Oh, and I used a 100k gain pot for the CMOS Stage 2, could use maybe a bit more, I like the control and range of gain.
  I had the parts on hand, seemed sure to be a shoe in, had to try it and it IS !!!
  Those cap choices were somewhat chance, though I do have a pretty good selection, one or two of the values just happened to 'appear' and be close to what I had chosen to look for !!
  Most excellent for Clean-ish to sorta distorted tones. Super playable...

[Stevo]

Hey Sgt. Lets us know where you find your short and what you think of the circuit??   You must have a positive connections to jack gound since it is only there when pluged in should be easy enough let us know I would like to see what you think...