Tape delay loop

[newperson]

Hi,

What type of 1/4 tape is good for making a tape loop for a Roland Space Echo 555 model?  I understand it needs to be about 10 feet, but I cannot find any information for the brand of tape used.  I only see people trying to sell loops.  Would they be any problem using Ampex 457?  Or is there a better brand to handle to excessive tape wear caused by it looping?

Thanks,

[petemoore]

  My Exp. is...the thicker the better. The thin doesnt hold up as well. This is from years ago, perhaps modern technologies have been applied to tape so there is better tape available?
  I'd look to see what's available info wise on the recording sites, what tape they're using for multitracking might be a choices
  IIRC material it's made from matters also, don't use what's not recommended for your tape heads.
  I've heard of loading reel or cassettes for echoes, the Univox Model I had used a 'tape corral', I could just pull a stretch of the vynil off of a large reel of it, enough to make hundreds of loops from, cut and splice a batch for the road, then store them in boxes like the factory loops come in...use as necessary...which was about 1 gig, two if you like cool sort of rough echoes, and remember to turn the device off whenever it's not being used.
  Sure did the nice echoes when it was working great. I gave up on getting premade loops right away.

[Dave_B]

  My Exp. is...the thicker the better. The thin doesnt hold up as well.

If that's the case, then 456 would be a better choice than 457 as it's much thicker. 

I've forgotten everything I've learned about tape bias, so I'm not sure how much that would come into play.  My guess is, as with many guitar vs. hifi discussions, it's probably not going to be as critical on a Space Echo as on my old Fostex.  Does the Space Echo even have a bias adjustment?

[Herr Masel]

Hey, newperson, could we have a look at the schematic for the tape echo? I'd love to make on if it is not too advanced for me.

[Mark Hammer]

There are several aspects to selecting the tape that need to be attended to.  One is certainly the mechanical durability of the tape, and in that respect thicker is better.  Another aspect is the biasing of the tape (well, biasing of the frequency response curve applied to the tape).  A third is effectively erasing the tape.  One of the things about echoplex applications is that the tape rarely remains in a recorded state for any appreciable length of time.  It will be recorded on, played back and erased, all in a very short time span.  Will the erase head do the job so that teeny traces of prior recorded riffs do not slowly build up audio grime?  If the tape is nice and thick stuff for archival purposes (i.e., designed to hang onto store magnetic charge for decades), there MAY be an issue with the erasure electronics cleaning it up adequately when needed.  I'm not saying it will necessarily be a problem, but it MAY be something to keep an eye out for - You can always EQ away audible differences between chrome and ferrous tapes on playback, but chrome tape needs diferent erasure electronics to be truly wiped clean AFAIK.

[(doug harrison)]

Hey Newperson,

I've never played with a tape delay unit of any kind (other than feedback looping my old Scully 260), but I have played with plenty of 1/4" tape. The thickest is 1.5 mil thickness, which would be Ampex (now Quantegy) 456 or 406, or 3M/Scotch 908. Ampex/Quantegy 457/407 is thinner, at 1.0 mil. All discontinued, but plentiful on the one-pass market.

You can buy reels from www.tapetape.com or try ebay. If you're willing to pay for postage, I would be glad to send you samples of 406, and maybe some other types, too, depending on what I have. If you let me know how long a loop you need, I could even do that for you, too.

As far as bias goes, I imagine there would be a control for that somewhere on or inside the delay unit. Probably not too critical; just turn it until it sounds okay. (Not like you're mastering Steely Dan or anything...)

[newperson]

sorry but i do not have a schematic of the unit.

Thanks for the offer doug harrison and the information about the thickness of the tape.  i understand that the loops are about ten feet long.  how much do you think that shipping would be?  i have never biased a tape machine before, i do not see it being a big issue because i am not making anything but space sounds with the unit anyhow.  it would be nice to know if a certain brand/type would work before buying a reel of tape.  i never thought about the tape being too good and not erasing fully.  i looked at that site and saw that 1500 feet was not much money.  have you ordered from there before?  is there a min. order amount?

thanks for all the information,
paul.

[petemoore]

  I'd start with a clean sheet to work on. The tape is hard to handle in long unreeled lengths, can get twisted a 180 [wont work] or krinkled [may work but not as good, could jam] etc.
  I measured 2.5' on 2.6'  plank, drilled two holes at each end and inserted two 1'' dowel rods [3'' length], with a little double stick tape on one end of the plank. I'd use the Double Stick Tape to hold one end of the recording tape, then wrap 2 loops of recording tape onto the dowel rod reel ends [makes 10' lengths quickly and neatly], the measurement jig holds most of the tape while I was splicing, allowed me to sit the whole time while I did a batch of tape loops, kept the tape straight while splicing.
  I'd keep a finger on the switch when loading into the corral, making sure I had enough straight tape to feed in. I made a shorter 'wrap jig' for getting the tape into fitted storage boxes.