I really really hoped the Flanger Hoax Would be Awesome... But

[A.S.P.]

I could sooner see George Bush following Phish around the country in a "hippie van" than imagine Ton submitting a design that had interesting performance features...

so, B*sh is touring the country?

[puretube]

[edit] hoax-thread?

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1068464

[A.S.P.]

I could sooner see George Bush following Phish around the country in a "hippie van" than imagine Ton submitting a design that had interesting performance features...

so, B*sh is touring the country?

[Dave_B]

I could sooner see George Bush following Phish around the country in a "hippie van" than imagine Ton submitting a design that had interesting performance features...

so, B*sh is touring the country?

He is, and I've heard he delivers a real head-shaking performance these days.  I assume like a metal show, but I'm not sure. 

[Mark Hammer]

I could sooner see George Bush following Phish around the country in a "hippie van" than imagine Ton submitting a design that had interesting performance features...

Um, while I'm sure the quoters had no such intentions, and merely cut things short for brevity's sake and because they liked the GWB/Phish thing, that out-of-context quote is chopped at a rather uncomfortable point, and suggests some things about our colleague that are the complete opposite of what we know to be true.  No apologies are needed, but I DID want to set the record straight.

After seeing the comments on H-C that Ton graciously referred us to, and after the similar kerfuffle about whether the Echo Park was or was not a noisy pedal, it would seem that those experiencing noise are experiencing it for REAL reasons.  What those reasons are is another matter that demands some sort of answer.  Is it possible that some pedals (and not just these but others as well) need to see some specific conditions at their output/input to behave well?  I suppose so.  Is it possible that companies can contract out construction to be able to offer a good design at accessible prices, and they inherit a quality-control nightmare?  I suppose so.  Is it possible that some folks have unrealistic expectations regarding noise levels from certain types of products?  I suppose so.  But how much of what reported stems from each of those various potential causes, and how much do the comments on line reflect the true incidence of any noise issues experienced by users?  We don't have any of that information available.

It'd be nice if there were "pedal epidemiologists" out there, who could objectively document incidences of problems and their circumstances, and build dependable models and estimates of certain production or design problems, so that consumers could turn to reliable and valid evidence/advice, the way they turn to the Center for Disease Control.  The impact that a couple of H-C or other forum notes can have can all too easily cause concern where there may not be need for any, or conversely direct attention everywhere EXCEPT for what really needs fixing.

[RDV]

My condolences for having to go through all this Ton.

RDV

[Doug_H]

After seeing the comments on H-C that Ton graciously referred us to, and after the similar kerfuffle about whether the Echo Park was or was not a noisy pedal, it would seem that those experiencing noise are experiencing it for REAL reasons. 

I don't put much stock in internet opinions/reviews -they flap in the breeze from day to day. Who knows if the problem is misapplication, spending less then 30 seconds twisting the knobs, etc. It could be anything. I feel like the bottom line is that if there -is- some sort of generic "factory" problem- it will get fixed. That is simple.

But with the distribution channels that EH has, what will ultimately determine the success of this product will be people trying it out in music stores and making up their own minds about it. It won't matter who thinks what on the internet. And one famous musician using it on a recording certainly trumps 3 HC chuckleheads who may or may not know what they are doing.

Hang in there Ton... I hope you're not letting this initial perceived "bad internet press" get you down. IMO it is temporary noise level chatter...

Doug

[bwanasonic]

But with the distribution channels that EH has, what will ultimately determine the success of this product will be people trying it out in music stores and making up their own minds about it. It won't matter who thinks what on the internet. And one famous musician using it on a recording certainly trumps 3 HC chuckleheads who may or may not know what they are doing.

In a strange way, I am more interested now in the FH! So far the "mine hisses/ mine doesn't" information isn't very useful. If more specific info could be provided - what output were you using, active/ passive pickups, settings, etc. - it might go a lot farther in figuring what the issue is. I think it's pretty clear the FH gets low marks in ease of use, but that's something I'd expect of it. Someone who had only used presets on a digital synth would be pretty baffled by a mini-moog "I brought it back- it kept making weird noises when I turned the knobs, and I couldn't get a decent piano patch, and what's up with the one note at a time thing?"

I had ruled out getting the Hoax for ease of use issues and it's large footprint, but now my curiousity is getting the best of me… If I can get one locally with a good return policy, I might submit a report soon.

Kerry M

[Mark Hammer]

Once upon a time, a "manual" for a pedal consisted of a pamphlet with a picture of the control panel (all 2 or three knobs of it!), some promo blurb, some self-evident facts (turning clockwise was "more"), some sample settings, and some guidance on powering and battery life.

More and more, floor pedals demand the sort of documentation that was formerly reserved for software or sophisticated rackmount devices.  While the manuals I've seen for the Tone Core pedals I have used are certainly pretty extensive, and well beyond what we've come to expect for the average 3 or 4-knobber, I've been a little disappointed at their lack of depth when I consider what the pedals can actually be configured to do.  That's not a criticism of Line 6 or the pedal series.  Rather, I think it reflects some adjusting that the industry itself probably needs to undergo.  The printed material for the Flanger Hoax is similarly prety extensive and deep, hopefully matching the depth of the pedalitself.  Not having tinkered with one, I certainly can't offer an opinion.  But it certainly reflects the communication challenge some pedal-makers face these days.  With complex products like the Holiest Grail, Bi-Filter, and now the Flanger Hoax, I don't envy Mike Matthews' gang.  They have their work cut out for them as far as making the consumer comfortable and mentally agile with all those knobs and switches.

The way the sotware industry adapted to the regularly-occurring problems of inadequate software documentation was the emergence of the "For Dummies..." and "Complete Idiot's Guide..." industries.  Knowing how poorly technical types express themselves, and how hard it is to imagine a typical novice when you've lived with a product in development for 8 months, I always felt the "For Dummies..." industry was heaping blame on the end-user's incapacity to learn for what was really the manufacturer's inability to explain very well.  One wonders how long it will be (if it hasn't happened already) before we see "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Time-Based Floor-Pedals".  Certainly, if much of the documentation that accompanies pedals or was made available on-line by companies was better written, I imagine some of us here would have to do less explaining of things on a regular basis.

[notchboy]

The printed material for the Flanger Hoax is similarly prety extensive and deep, hopefully matching the depth of the pedalitself.  Not having tinkered with one, I certainly can't offer an opinion.

No, we certainly wouldn't expect you to offer an opinion...   

"Extensive and deep?"  Where can I find this material?  The only thing that came with my Flanger Hoax is a little sheet of colored paper folded into four pages.  No suggested settings, and just the barest of explanation for each control.  EH would do a lot better to include even two or three suggested settings.  It really seems like they just rushed this thing out, which is a shame, because in some ways it's exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see more of.

[tiges_ tendres]

if there is a problem with this pedal, everyone should buy one before they get recalled!  Could be a collectors piece!

there's mojo in them thar' hills

[notchboy]

I think the real trick is to find one that's not f***ed up!  Mine doesn't have the bypass problem that some people have mentioned, but it does have the hiss sweeping in and out, which goes away when you set the blend control to full-dry.  Other people report no problems at all.  EH supposedly does a listening test on every pedal before it goes out the door, but either that's not really the case or their QA people are former roadies for Spinal Tap...

[puretube]

I could sooner see George Bush following Phish around the country in a "hippie van" than imagine Ton submitting a design that had interesting performance features...

it`s not the "quoters" but the "editor" of the original post...  

(I think I remember having seen the reply before you edited it, Mark,
and at that time, it said rather correctly what you initially intended to express,
or at least what I think you meant to say - but now...
remember the thread, where you were referring to: people who are not involved,
reading certain texts more diligently than the author himself?  ).

Folx: I had so much problems getting into the forum for replying,
that I stopped trying...

Complain at your store, or to the manufacturer...
your complaints have been heard!

Venting in the public won`t heal your noise.

for more understanding of the "hoax",
go H-C FX-forum, search: "stompboxman" & "hoax"

[NoFi]

but it does have the hiss sweeping in and out, which goes away when you set the blend control to full-dry.

I thought i should just mention i have an ibanez FL-10, it's a flanger pedal with a delay time knob that does a few weird things and it has the same type of hiss.

[StephenGiles]

I find these complaints pathetic. Would you buy a car without driving it first? Would you..........no, I won't mention wives! Your first port of call (puerto de callerio) is at the store where you bought it. Don't moan here.
Stephen

[Mark Hammer]

To be fair, Steve, I'm not entirely convinced that your local music store is any sort of place to evaluate the baseline noise level of ANY pedal.  I mean, with all the multiple wankers, the 50 year-old Stevie Ray wannabes, and the Satch wannabes and Randy Rhoads wannabes, how the hell could you tell if the pedal was quiet or not unless you yelled at them all to shut up and cranked your amp?  There's a lot of things you can fairly evaluate about gear in a music store, but noise generally isn't one of them.

[StephenGiles]

I think you have a fair point there Mark.
Stephen

[Doug_H]

Someone who had only used presets on a digital synth would be pretty baffled by a mini-moog "I brought it back- it kept making weird noises when I turned the knobs, and I couldn't get a decent piano patch, and what's up with the one note at a time thing?"

Your mini-moog analogy is beautiful.

I was thinking along the lines of someone with active pups through a wireless and a ss amp DI'ed into the board who condemns a fuzz face for being "too fizzy". Or the guy who runs his TS into a Zoom and can't figure out why he doesn't sound like SRV ('Must be the wrong jrc4558...'). And so on... There's a whole world of contextual info that gets left out of these kinds of posts. Without some background info about the rig, how much time was spent on it, etc, you really can't tell much of anything.

It struck me from the beginning that the FH was intended as kind of a "Flange Factory"- more for the tweakers and it would require some knob-twiddling time to find all the good stuff. My rig is more geared toward live performance and I honestly don't have the time to turn knobs a lot to find sounds. I'm more of a pragmatist, hence my interest in the Liqua-Flange. But for the tweaker crowd, the FH looks like it would be a lot of fun.

FWIW, a drummer I played with 15 yrs ago had a mini-moog derivative that he loaned me for a couple weeks. It had a patch bay and was patch cord city! It was a blast to play with. I hoped he would either forget about it or let me swap him something for it (he was a drummer for cryin' out loud!) but no such luck...

Doug

[puretube]

your complaints have been heard!

All of`em - here & @muzictoyz & @H-C & elsewhere...

[Gladmarr]

In a strange way, I am more interested now in the FH! So far the "mine hisses/ mine doesn't" information isn't very useful. If more specific info could be provided - what output were you using, active/ passive pickups, settings, etc. - it might go a lot farther in figuring what the issue is. I think it's pretty clear the FH gets low marks in ease of use, but that's something I'd expect of it. Someone who had only used presets on a digital synth would be pretty baffled by a mini-moog "I brought it back- it kept making weird noises when I turned the knobs, and I couldn't get a decent piano patch, and what's up with the one note at a time thing?"

I had ruled out getting the Hoax for ease of use issues and it's large footprint, but now my curiousity is getting the best of me… If I can get one locally with a good return policy, I might submit a report soon.

Kerry M

...I have to admit, the only thing this thread has made me think about is getting a Flanger Hoax.  They say any publicity is good publicity!