Ultimate "Fuzz Face" ??

[MartyMart]

I have a LOT of fuzz circuits, but only one "true" FF, so decided to build
another.
I used the "Roger Mayer classic FF" schem from GEOFEX
After looking at it, I thought the 5k6 to Q1 looked a bit low ( and just too precise for Ge trannies )
so I socketed everything and used a 50k trimmer here.
I used an OC44 hfe 69 for Q1 and an old AC128 hfe 117 for Q2
I used a chunk of "tri-board" which is like vero with small strips of three
copper pads ( bought by mistake ) sort of "perf" meets "veroboard" deal !
I biased "by ear" ie: the point where the fuzz sounded loudest, beyond
that it cuts out and before that it gets quieter and too "fizzy" I measured
38.7k with a DMM afterwards, which seems about right .....
Sounds GREAT 
That classic FF tone, warm, not too fizzy and with a touch of "Rubber band"
about it ( if that makes sense? )
It's nice and touch sensitive, with good even decay and plenty of sustain 
Also has a nice powerful output with a 50k log vol pot
Fuzz pot is a 4k7 log with a 5k1 resistor across lugs 1&3 so around 2k5 as a value

MM.  enjoying this one a lot !!

[Steben]

The major drawback for me is that FF's aren't that wide range useable. I built them, oh yes. But at low guitar volume you need a treble bleed or else it all sounds sloppy due to the low input impedance. This together with the absence of a good low-pass filter makes it hard to cross-use with other effects. This also occurs on all clones and Tonebenders. They are not "WARM"  you make them warm with the amp's treble control.  Standard FF's simplicity has benefits for beginner DIY, but it has a "glass ceiling", you simply cannot upgrade to universal use like an overdrive.
With a treble boost in front you can get really metal high gain out of it, but it's also onedimensional and why even use a fuzz face for that?

these are all reasons I came up with the Purple Face. Load control for impedance versatility, treble control etc...(now in version2.0.  )

[MartyMart]

To some extent I agree, however, THIS thing is "warm" and kind of
"spongy" sounding, it doesn't suffer from the usual "fizz" of "FF's" at all !!
I forgot to mention, I stuck a 120pf cap across Q2's C/B which is helping it
some
"Horses for courses" I guess   
Where's the Purple face ??

Marty.

[Steben]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=38709.0

Image seems to be unloaded to me however...
this is the link
www.freewebs.com/vladem/PF2.JPG

[roknjohn]

Steben, got a schematic for this Purple Face? Sounds vey interesting. I'd like to see how you set up the load control. I play both a strat a LP, but haven't really got a fuzz face setup to play nice with both. Set it up for one and the other is less than ideal. Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like "plug n play" stuff...find something that works well(with both strat and LP) and leave it alone.

Search found the first Purple Face, but I see there is a second version which I could not find.

[roknjohn]

I'm getting nothing as well.

[Steben]

yeah, I realize free hosting s**ks... Those guys now saw the magic invention of going over a maximum bandwith with only 9 jpegs... oh boy...

I'll bring it up asap since it is erased on PC. PM if necessary. ok?   

However, if you got the Purple Face mkI schem few easy changes:
- Buffer stage : 680k resistors and Q1 swapped with 1M to ground and FET. 10k from source to ground.
- LOAD pot from 470k to 100k. Reverse Log is better than Linear as distortion control, but mind the wiring. Normal Log is just fine, but than you go from heavy fuzz clockwise to dull which in fact serves better the label "LOAD" as the "smooth" in Axis face.
- switchable treble bypass cap on the 100k pot. value by taste. start with 0.047

The treble control is a bit too complicated to express in words.

[MartyB]

That's funny.  I (the other Marty) did the same thing this last weekend.     I used two japanese germs and also used the Roger Mayer schem.  I didn't have to tweak or add the input/output Fuller mods to get the fuzz I wanted.  I'll try to post some sound samples this weekend.  It really is a one-trick pony but I haven't gotten that sound from any of my other fuzz effect  builds (I appreciate fuzz effects alot more now).  I don't have a Super Lead to play through, but I can tell it's the Jimi thing.

[MartyMart]

That's funny.  I (the other Marty) did the same thing this last weekend.   :icon_biggrin:  I used two japanese germs and also used the Roger Mayer schem. 

Did you get a decent result from the 5k6 to Q1 ?
That looks "wrong" to me !!
Otherwise a GREAT sound, you should try the pf cap trick
it gets the "fizz" out 
These babies are ALL about bias/tranny choice IMHO

Marty (A) ?  .... perhaps (Z) !

[Fret Wire]

You're right, that ckt shouldn't need any of the cap mods. There are a couple versions of the RM Classic Fuzz around. The schematic for the RM mods that RG shows right in the Fuzz Technology article (not the link) match my original RM Classic, which is an early version. Since that, and the clones I built off it sound so good, I never bothered with the other RM versions. As you can see in the article, the original RM mod was just the 1k output resistor and 2k fuzz pot. It does make a noticeable difference over the standard Dallas ckt. With good trannies and proper biasing, it nails the early Jimi Ge sound no problem. For biasing Marty's particular ge's, I'd start with 30k (Q1) and 15k (Q2).

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Schematics-etc/RM_Classic_Fuzz

[MartyMart]

Aha, that version has a 2u2/22uf and mine ( from GEO ) has 4u7 and 47uf ?
interesting ....
I have a '90's reissue with 2u2/22uf in it also ....
...... anyway, it makes a good "noise" !
MM

[Fret Wire]

GEO has the 2.2uf/22uf version right in the article itself.

Yeah, assuming they weren't tracing errors, I think I've seen four different RM Classic Fuzz versions. Phil Bryant had mine and the others on his site (Fuzz Central). The 5k6 on the other RM versions is odd. Usually with the RM mods (2k fuzz pot), Q1 normally biases up around 25k-50k.

[petemoore]

GEO has the 2.2uf/22uf version right in the article itself.

Yeah, assuming they weren't tracing errors, I think I've seen four different RM Classic Fuzz versions. Phil Bryant had mine and the others on his site (Fuzz Central). The 5k6 on the other RM versions is odd. Usually with the RM mods (2k fuzz pot), Q1 normally biases up around 25k-50k.

I'm not seeing the RM Classic Fuzz at Fuzzcentral, Schematics and PCB's coming soon...?

[Fret Wire]

Phillip hasn't gotten around to putting the schematics and pcb's back up on his revamped site yet. That's why I said "had".

[jmusser]

I have yet to build a true germanium fuzz face to be able to compare to the circuits I feel are very "face like". Right now my choices for that tone are Joe Gagan's "Easy Face" and  Joe Davisson's "Easy Drive" (with an OC140 instead of the 2n3904) and his stock "Antiquity Fuzz". Davisson's Easy Drive cranked full tilt to fuzz seems to get the germanium tone to really come through. I believe the single transistor being driven hard is the main key. The Antiquity Fuzz uses the input diode, that virtually erases the Si harshness with compression. It even sound "germy" through my solid state amp. I built the Easy Face years ago, and never really got to realize it's full potential until I ran it at fairly high gain through my little Epi tube amp. So, I need to build a true FF with know HFE's to be able to compare these 3 circuits too. I honestly believe the Easy Drive is the best sounding of the 3.

[roknjohn]

I have built one using AC128's. It sounds great when you get it all tweaked in. But, when I get it dialed in for my strat, it tends to be missin something with the LP. Guess I'll have to build another, tweak it for the LP, put them in the same box and switch between the two.

Also for those of you who can't get your hands on germaniums, I think the Axis Face Silicon at Fuzz Central is as close as I've heard silicon come to the "real deal". I was pleasantly surprised. It doesn't have the typical brittle sound of silicon. YMMV

[petemoore]

  I have all of 'em I think.
  EZ Face is a fave for sure, sounds different than a GE FF, not by that much, and is quite EZ to bias and quite stable.
  I have a Rangemaster that sounds like a boost with character through my 50w MkII head, but like a Fuzz through my little 2w tube amp !!!
  Excuse my forthrightness [or whatever you call it] but when I read Ge does this or that, I believe it, but I wonder 'through What' and with 'what pickups' etc.
  Ge 'sound' is always just a small portion of the overall picture I think.

[mac]

I do agree.
The electric guitar is one part of a bigger instrument. It is the guitar, the pickups, the cable , the fxs, the amp, the room, miking, etc, and most important, your fingers which make this or that tone.
There is no mistery about the FF. It was designed to be used with a strat or single coil. Get a pair of good Ge, use the original schematic, set the proper bias, plug it to a decent big amp, valves at melting point and... bingo! The original nice "sponge bob, farty" sound. Run it through a small practice amp and... agh!
"Hey, but it does not sound like Jimi in that song, I'll have to mod it!" The heck it doesn't, for the reasons I explained above.
The ultimate FF sound?? The one coming from your setup, and mainly from your heart & fingers.

mac

http://www.geocities.com/guitarfxs

[petemoore]

  Ok...FF's are cool. Just mess around with them and you'll find nirvana.

[Fret Wire]

That should all go without saying. But I guess it's good to state the basics every so often for the newcomers.