Looking for advice for Treble boost/mild overdrive for computer recording

[Threefish]

Hi All,

I've done a fair bit of forum searching on this, and haven't come up with any good directions, so here goes:

I have my P-90 equipped guitar plugged into a Behringer MIC200 preamp (sort-of tube preamp for guitar, microphone etc. which has generated a fair bit of hype/distain/abuse for Behringer, but I quite like really) and then into my mac. As I said, i like the sound, but it could do with a bit more, well, life i suppose. I'm into fairly trebly rhythm sounds with just a hint of on-the-edge overdrive, so it's only a really mild overdrive I'm after. Now the MIC200 input distorts with a little more signal than you get from a strong-signal guitar, and being distortion of a digital input, sounds appalling. So what I'd like is something to really just colour the signal a little, not like you would use to push an amp input, with a signal strength not much higher than bypass. I'm considering two cascaded LPB-1/Screaming Bird (with switchable caps) circuits, a Professor Tweed or a Supreaux (both of which will be run at low gain and low overall volume). I suppose what I'm concerned about is having something with a good clean to mild overdrive usable range, not distortion from zero. I'll be able to run it at 9v or 12v. I've tried my Mosfet booster, and it doesn't have the sound I'm after.

Opinions? Advice?

Thanks in advance.

[Dragonfly]

check out the "sparkle boost" and the "snakebite" boosters in my layouts gallery folder....the snakebite has a bit more overdrive on tap, so you might like it quite a bit...its still pretty darn clean with the gain knob down too....

andy

[dv8]

Dragonfly's pair, AMZ mini-boost, any of the ROG sims, esp. the 18, May Queen, and Supreaux are great.

-brian

[lenwood]

You could try this in my layouts gallery, "LO-FI drive" you can vary the drive by changing the one resistor marked with an asterisk (3K**). This booster also will give you some tone control.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Lenwood-Designs/lo_fi_drive_fuzz_ge_ver_1

It is just a simple booster overdrive. You could also change the transistor to a PNP silicon like 2N3906 if you don't have germanium.

Lennie

[Ge_Whiz]

I suspect that many of the ROG sims (especially the 18 and definitely the May Queen) will provide more distortion than you want. The Supreaux has a great tone but again much of its range may be too much, although it could be tamed. I suggest that what you want is the Peppermill.

I'm sure that Brian will advise...

[Threefish]

Thanks for the replies everyone, and for those of you that had a glance at my post.
That Peppermill could be the answer Ge Whiz, and I'm considering the Snakebite too Dragonfly. I've done a bit of tinkering with resistor and cap values in the past with some of my other projects - looks like I'll be doing some more with this to get what I'm happy with.

As a bit of an aside, I've been watching RDV's thread on the Vox preamp.
(http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=37049.0) (that link's not going to work. It's on the first page of the forum at them moment anyway...)

I like that sound, though it doesn't really completely fit my criteria being just a clean sound, though a really good one at that. Hats off to RDV for what he's done. Just to satisfy my curiosity I may end up having a crack at this, and work on that edgy sound I'm after from another angle. Dunno where I'll get that 500mH inductor though...

If anyone else has any more ideas I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again.

[spudulike]

Blue Magic

[Threefish]

I built a Peppermill over the weekend, and it sounds great. I used an MPF102 instead of a J201 (I wasn't patient enough for J201's to be posted here to Australia) and that probably helped with what I was after. I reduced the input, output and coupling caps values a bit, and left out the .0022 cap at the output to retain those highs. The side effect of attenuating the drive of the circuit by reducing the cap values works for me too. As I have it now, I can get a good range of sounds, though I'm sure I'll use some DPDT's for switching in some alternative cap values.

Thanks very much to the guys at Runoffgroove for the circuit, and for answering a few of my questions so quickly.

Thanks again for the suggestion Ge Whiz, and thanks to everyone else who made suggestions.

[petemoore]

  My soundcard didn't seem to prefer much boost, some voicing seemed to help, anything much above unity compared to guitar signal seemed to want to cause unwanted clipping, using anything with clipping also produced some harsher artifacts.
  Digital [ ]. Reports read that these devices are liked for direct input recording.
  What I do, Avoiding DI, is OT.

[Threefish]

Thanks for that petemoore. Sounds like you've experienced what I have.
Digital - yeah well, thats an option I suppose. I'd prefer to stick to DIY. I'm happy to watch others fiddle with digital for the time being.
So - OT as it is, what DO you do to avoid DI? I pursued the DI path to save miking up an amp (can play and tinker while the children sleep).
PM or refer me on if you perfer not to veer off topic too much.
Thanks

[stm]

I don't think the DI subject is so off-topic here.  If you can have an accurate amplifier/cabsim simulator, then any "standard" or vintage FX of your liking will fill the bill, so this is my opinion:

Finding a DECENT DI processor has been like searching the holy grail to me.  I live in an apartment, so anything louder than a 2xAA battery radio will cause the neighbours to complain--not to mention the wife or when the kids are sleeping!

In my case I'm looking for such a device not only for recording purposes, but for practicing with headphones as well.  So far the development of the Condor speaker sim was a clear improvement over existing cabsims to me, however headphones are still unforgiving.  If you don't believe me, go to Tonepad site to the sound samples on the Sans Amp GT-2.  The difference between the Medium Gain sample recorded LIVE and with the DI is simply dismal!

Some time ago a clever spectra comparison was made to determine what was going on in the Harmonic Converger in order to determine is transfer function. I think this principle is applicable here as well to identify what's different in the transfer function and then attemping to synthesize such a circuit. (I don't want to hear the purists saying that the harmonics added by the preamp valves, power amp and speaker are part of the equation, etc.  I already know that, but I'm pretty sure such a circuit would let you get even closer to the real thing.)

Best Regards.

[petemoore]

  So - OT as it is, what DO you do to avoid DI?
  I ordered a Small Tube Amp Kit yesterday...
  Mic The Amp...to me, finding a substitute for this method is like trying to find a substitute for sleep ... there will never be one.
  After using headphones for a while, I feel as though I've connected my eardrums to a small jackhammer, preferring greatly the 'padding' that some air between the source of sound [speaker] and reciever of sound [eardrum] provides.
  As much as I like recording and not having others be aware of what I'm doing, I've considered a 'headbooth' [I don't have room for a recording booth]...a box with speaker enclosure boxes on it, that I can stick my head up in...lol...might sound funny but it's my percieved 'solution' to headphones tones.
  Some nice sounding small speakers/small amp to drive them...air padding...kind of like an expanded set of headphones...laugh as you may...a small/low noise air fan also to keep the windshield [I gotta see where the buttons are] from fogging up, drapes to 'seal' at the shoulders...all suspended so I can sit or stand, tucking my ears/head up in it.
  Some good mileage may be had with the cab sims, I've tried boosters, cab sim's etc. and prefer the playback sound of a miced cab.
  I have SPX90 effects in my recorder [Yamaha AW16], it has a 'guitar' input, but I only used that a couple times...really good for clean-ish, can't touch the dirt tones I get with Dist>amp>Speaker> Mic though.

[stm]

I ordered a Small Tube Amp Kit yesterday...

How much power?  Remember 1 Watt over a 12" speaker can be as loud as yelling (near 90 dB at 1 meter).  For room and private playing I think you need around 0.1W !?  There was a small tube amp design in a site from the "naked church" guys, using a real power pentode for 50 mW output power. Can't find the site again though. These guys made also a fender and a marshall amp emulator, as well as a tape saturation emulator.

EDIT: Info on the low-power tube amp is here  http://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/lowpsch.html  and here  http://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/lowpsch1.gif

As much as I like recording and not having others be aware of what I'm doing, I've considered a 'headbooth' [I don't have room for a recording booth]...a box with speaker enclosure boxes on it, that I can stick my head up in...lol...might sound funny but it's my percieved 'solution' to headphones tones.

Some time ago I had my amp over a tall table and I was playing sitting nearby, so the speaker cone was in line with my ears. I could hear those ugly piercing highs as well. Putting the cabinet down on the floor took the harshness away.  The moral is that your ears should not be inline with the speaker(s).

Some good mileage may be had with the cab sims, I've tried boosters, cab sim's etc. and prefer the playback sound of a miced cab.

Me too!

[Threefish]

Ahhh yes, the miked amp. I'm currently trying to convert a part of my large shed to some practice/recording space, and I think I'll have a go at this out there. Something a little more sophisticated than some old blankets thrown over the mic and amp is a part of the plan too, so it's not so loud but still audible to me. Should keep the neighbours happy.
I like the idea of the head booth stm, I can see the serious theory behind it, though I'd then have the problem of my wife hanging around for the purpose of having a laugh at my expense. Yeah it would look funny, and you would need more ear-to-speaker space than practical. An amp on the ground with a mic in front sounds easy again.
I suddenly want to head up the shed again tonight. Do some more organising to move all the stuff in.

[MartyMart]

For low level playing and/or quiet recording I bought a Palmer "Sponge"
which is a power attenuator.
Takes my Matamp 7 watt tube amp down to about 1/8th of a watt and
I find it VERY useful, I don't notice any "tone loss" at all.
I can get that "cranked" amp sound at very quiet level's.
I'm sure it's DIY-able, but was beyond me two years ago !

Marty.