Vox Clyde McCoy Wah, build report,... Any ideas for Hendrix wah tone?

[Paul Marossy]

do the qualities of an inductor go beyond its mH rating?

Like formerMember1 says, the ferrite compound and number of windings/size of wire has something to do with it. IMO, these things are somewhat trivial, but I suppose it matters to some degree when speaking of the characteristics of a resonant circuit. From my research so far, it seems that the only thing of real substance is RG's evaluation of the original Fasel inductors, in which he concludes that there is some kind of magnetic offset occuring in the inductor that causes a asymmetrical waveform in the output. Other than that, some people feel that this inductor is better than that inductor, etc. - maybe there is some truth to that, but I still maintain that the feedback cap is the heart of the circuit and the inductor is secondary. 

[leonhendrix]

The circuits in the picture and signature clyde are exactley the same (i have both, but i got them at a reasonable price unlike the prices they make on ebay). There are two types of halo inductor which appears in both versions the small hole halo and the large hole halo. Looking at all the pictures and clydes ive owned the small hole halo inductor nearly always has a 100k across it and the large hole halo has the 33k.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.castledine/greenfuz/inductor.html

leon

[Paul Marossy]

Looking at all the pictures and clydes ive owned the small hole halo inductor nearly always has a 100k across it and the large hole halo has the 33k.

That's an interesting tidbit! 

[formerMember1]

yeah that is odd, i just learned that last night at 3:30AM.  I made the assumption that small hole had 100k and large hole had 33k, but didn't want to post, cuz i only went by the pictures i saw online at castlefdines, i didn't see other wahs like you to make the statement,...but what i do know is my halo from arielfx is modeled on the large hole, and fulltone's is modeled on the small hole, could be something there,...

Paul what is the feedback cap again?  Is that the sweep cap? 

what a crazy ciruit, it looks so simple, but is the hardest pedal i built so far,...

[Paul Marossy]

yeah that is odd, i just learned that last night at 3:30AM.  I made the assumption that small hole had 100k and large hole had 33k, but didn't want to post, cuz i only went by the pictures i saw online at castlefdines, i didn't see other wahs like you to make the statement,...but what i do know is my halo from arielfx is modeled on the large hole, and fulltone's is modeled on the small hole, could be something there,...

Paul what is the feedback cap again?  Is that the sweep cap? 

what a crazy ciruit, it looks so simple, but is the hardest pedal i built so far,...

I wonder what the reasoning was behind using a certain resistor with certain inductors. I guess that will always be a mystery...

Yes, the feedback cap is what is commonly referred to as "the sweep cap".

Yeah, it's a crazy circuit. Crazy in a good way!!  I think you ought to consider a Maestro Boomerang clone, too - mine is the best sounding wah that I have ever used.

EDIT: I've been thinking about this a little bit. The pot that you use is also pretty critical in terms of how it sweeps - it's literally controlling the gain traveling thru the feedback cap, and hence the amount of capacitance reactance seen at the input (Q1). Therefore, the sweep of the pot would definitely be a factor in how the wah sounds in terms of the sweep and feel. The actual value of the pot (100K vs. 200K) would also make some difference in how it sounds as well. In my experience, it's not huge in terms of sound, but it is a big factor in "the feel" of the wah...

[formerMember1]

thanks,...

something odd happened, i was using the wah, and all of a sudden it got all scratchy, and wouldn't wah right, instead of going "wah" cleanly, it got all hoarse as if it had a sore throat 

I couldn't figure it out, but i thought it was the pot was ruined, i was already tired from teweaking my fuzz, so i took a break disgusted, aate some spegehtti, and now when i play the wah it is fine, I checked all the solder joints, they are fine,..I really thought the pot was bad,..

or could it of been something that was socketed?

[Dai H.]

my guess, since everything is pretty new (incl. the pot), right?--is a bad/semi-good connection somewhere. Could be a socket connection or iffy solder joint. I had something like that, thought it was the pot, then sprayed too much Deoxit into it (a Fulltone pot) and ruined it (the carbon track)--my fault. 

also, socket connections can wear out, so keep that in mind if you do a lot of parts plugging in/out. A worn socket contact drove me crazy on a perfboard TS-9 one time.

[Paul Marossy]

Something similar happens sometines to my Boomerang clone - the pedal cuts out and then comes back in. I know it's the output jack, I just need to replace it sometime... 

[Dai H.]

I was getting that on my output jack too. Cleaning with alcohol seems to have fixed it (oxidized, dirty contacts). Probably doesn't help that the bottom lid is always off.

[formerMember1]

well that solves it,..cuz i just was wondering why i used those closed switchcraft jacks, and they barely hold the cord, the open jacks seem to hold the cord so tight, ya break your wrist unplugging it.  It is the output jack that feels even worse than the stereo too. 

thanks,..i am gonna change them for open,...

[formerMember1]

hey guys two questions, i search forum, but can't find,...

1. WHat was the difference of the signature vs picture wah halos?  I mentioned this before but i can't quite let it go,
the ariel fx halo is modeled after the 67 large hole signature wah halo. THe castledine halo is modeled after the 67 small hole signature halo wah.
THe fulltone halo is modeled after the small halo Picture wah.

I know the halos in the signature and picture weren't the same.

2.I also heard there is a Black deluxe pot and a ProPot.  I have the ProPot/200k and like it better than fulltone pot. But what is the black deluxe pot vs the propot?  I was thinking a 100k Propot would be better for me and more original over the 200k. 

thanks,....

[leonhendrix]

The picture and signature version used both small hole and large hole inductors. I have both original versions that use the large hole i also have a 1967 crybaby (logo on the footplate) that has the small hole inductor, the circuitry is pretty much the same.

I used to think they had different circuitry when i looked on this site  http://members.chello.nl/~t.heertjes/Wah%20wah.html
but the circuitry shown to be from the picture wah is from an early grey vox wah.

leon

[leonhendrix]

Talking about fulltone and halo inductors their was a story that he would take the halo inductors from clyde mccoys and replace them with inductors from dunlop crybabies?? dont know if its true but quite weird.

leon

[Dai H.]

2.I also heard there is a Black deluxe pot and a ProPot.  I have the ProPot/200k and like it better than fulltone pot. But what is the black deluxe pot vs the propot?  I was thinking a 100k Propot would be better for me and more original over the 200k. 

if you're talking about the black top pot and the propot--aren't these the same thing?

[formerMember1]

yeah i found out from online, that the ProPot and Black Top pot are the same exact pot, just made for two different manufactuaers.

I can't wait to see if smallbear could get a 100k Propot, i think that will be better than the 200k long sweep, and it will also be closer sounding to a vintage wah pot.

I was gonna try tapering the pro pot down to 100k, but after my searching the forum, everybody says it mess's the taper of the pot, so i guess that won't be possible....

thanks for replying guys,..

[Paul Marossy]

Before I replaced the scratchy pot in my 70s Italian Vox wah (with red Fasel inductor), I measured it and even though it said "100K" on the pot casing it measured just about 200K. I thought it sounded good with that 100K pot that really was a 200K pot (other than the scratchiness), so the ProPot I replaced it with worked out great.

[Eirik]

Seems like Jim Dunlop have added two more pots to the hotpotz series. One being 250k and the second one are 470k!
http://banzaieffects.com/home.php?cat=335

Eirik

[Dai H.]

Before I replaced the scratchy pot in my 70s Italian Vox wah (with red Fasel inductor), I measured it and even though it said "100K" on the pot casing it measured just about 200K. I thought it sounded good with that 100K pot that really was a 200K pot (other than the scratchiness), so the ProPot I replaced it with worked out great.

right, I also heard that from someone else who measured the pots in a couple of oldies, so 200k is (one) "correct" value. Seems to me from measuring very old unused pots that their tolerances were not very good in the first place (which may have turned out to be a good thing for a wah), and that low-priced pots in general came to have better tolerances over time.

[Paul Marossy]

right, I also heard that from someone else who measured the pots in a couple of oldies, so 200k is (one) "correct" value. Seems to me from measuring very old unused pots that their tolerances were not very good in the first place (which may have turned out to be a good thing for a wah), and that low-priced pots in general came to have better tolerances over time.

BTW, the original pot was a "100K" made by ERT.  I know tolerances on cheap pots can be bad, but that is really bad! 

[formerMember1]

thanks,

MAybe i will leave it 200k then.

I made a mistake in my last posts, i must have misread an eBAY auction or something, but here the Fulltone wah is modeled on the signature clyde mccoy, not the picture model. 

I thought the picture model was superior and that was what Jimi used on ELadyland.  But it seems everyone builds a signture model halo, castledine,ariel, fulltone, and Fulltone says on his site that Hendrix used  a script/signature clyde wah on E.L., i always thought he used a picture model.

BUt maybe it is becuase i keep thinking that the picture model was 100k Q and the script was 33k Q Resistor,...

thanks again for the replies,..