How do you people make such good layouts?

[robbiemcm]

I'm trying to make my own layout, and even for an easier circuit like the easy drive, it's really really hard. You all seem to be able to dream up traces which leave you with little wasted space. Mine started off okay, but failed as I got to the end as you can see with the big wide loop thing (exagerated on the layout you see below).



How do you make all your layouts so good. Is it just one of those things that requires practice, and eventually you're able to make layouts that are quite small and have little wasted space?

[EDIT]

And this is the schematic for the pedal I tried to make my own layout to..
http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/pedals/easydrive.gif

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Lots of hard work, really.

Fp

[Paul Marossy]

It's like most other things - "practice makes perfect". My first PCB layout had lots of wasted real estate!

[MartyB]

Each one of mine, especially the complex ones, go through sequential changes, starting like a schematic layout, then moving this and that, slowly becoming more economical and efficient with space.  They don't get slapped down in anything like final form.  I have to admit to using Express PCB which makes rearranging things straightforward.  It might take me a few hours to make one like this now:

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/MartyBs/layout?full=1

[Paul Marossy]

I use AutoCAD to design my layouts, which means that I am the one designing them. I also rarely come up with a layout that doesn't get edited constantly during the design phase. My criteria is to make it as small as possible with a sensible layout. If I have to use a few jumpers to accomplish that, I'll do it.

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Same here, I don't use auto anything.

I use CorelDraw for my layouts, but because I use AutoCAD for work and couldn't stand seeing that screen a minute longer than needed .

Fp

[R.G.]

How do you make all your layouts so good.

The same way the English get those multiacre incredibly green, uniform lawns at their country houses. You prepare the ground, level, rake, fertilize, and seed. When it comes up, you water, mow and then roll it smooth for 200 years.


You do a layout. Then you do another. Then you do another. When you no longer feel the need to ask anyone about how to do it, you're there.

[Bucksears]

Adobe Illustrator.
I can change the weight (thickness) and size of the pads and traces, as well as make neat-o square pad groups for transistor and IC sockets. You can zoom in for detailing and moving stuff around, plus build it in actual size for exact printing.
I save a bunch of different ones on to one large TIF file and print the whole page out on PNP blue. Works great.

[gaussmarkov]

i use cadsoft's eagle.  they have a freeware version.

The same way the English get those multiacre incredibly green, uniform lawns at their country houses. You prepare the ground, level, rake, fertilize, and seed. When it comes up, you water, mow and then roll it smooth for 200 years.

here's an example of what i think R.G. is talking about.  i have been working on a layout for Joe Davisson's Blackfire.  i just opened up my working draft and it looked like this:



when i looked at the area around Q2 i saw that long trace running over the top and down the side and wondered if i could flip Q2 around to make that trace shorter.  so that made me notice that C3 and R5 and R7 might be rearranged to accomodate that flip, but i wasn't really sure.  so i started a new file with the old one, ripped up some of the traces, and started moving stuff around.  this is where software like eagle comes in handy:  it shows you where connections will need to go while you are moving unconnected stuff around.  here's what i came up with:



and i gained some real estate at the same time.  so little by little, the layout gets better.  i would like to get this down to a layout that is only 10 holes high so that it fits standing upright into a 1590B enclosure.  i have given some of my capacitors a fair amount of room (i use outlines that give maximum dimensions and are way to big for the real thing) and i will play with this some more later to try to get the size i want.  you can see that i keep all my resistors flat at first.  there's more opportunity for squishing.  it helps me to keep coming back to a layout.  sometimes an attempt like this doesn't work; sometimes it does. 

[gaussmarkov]

triple post. 

[gaussmarkov]

double post. 

[moandj]

Same here, I don't use auto anything.

I use CorelDraw for my layouts, but because I use AutoCAD for work and couldn't stand seeing that screen a minute longer than needed .

Fp

If you use AutoCad for work (I do too), then the PCB seems like it would take you 25% of the time that a Corel Draw or Photoshop or MS Paint would take.  With vector graphics, you have blocks for all of the standard components, you can control lineweights and manipulate lines easier, you can have different levels showup for different views (toner transfer and component layout).  You can have it automatically snap to the grid. 

It's like having a brand new sports car sitting in your driveway while you are driving around in a Ford Pinto.

With that being said, the tonepad layouts still rock. 

[jrem]

i use cadsoft's eagle.  they have a freeware version.

So do I.  Eagle Lite rocks.  Takes some time getting used to, but after that, I couldn't imagine not using it.

[Paul Marossy]

If you use AutoCad for work (I do too), then the PCB seems like it would take you 25% of the time that a Corel Draw or Photoshop or MS Paint would take.  With vector graphics, you have blocks for all of the standard components, you can control lineweights and manipulate lines easier, you can have different levels showup for different views (toner transfer and component layout).  You can have it automatically snap to the grid.

Definitely much less time involved for me using AutoCAD vs. some other program. Blocks make things go real fast, too. 

[gaussmarkov]

warning!!!  this layout stuff is seriously addictive for some people:  19 x 10 blackfire

[Dirk_Hendrik]

While many of the graphic programs mentioned above are really good they do miss two important tools which ar found in every type of dedicated PCB design software: The function that checks the connectivity compared to the schematic. When OK all connextions that were laid in the schem are in the PCB layout. This means that you will not forget connections. The other is the design rule checker which will tell you if a connection made is right (as compared to the schematic) and if traces or pads aren't too close together. Especially in larger designs the chance of errors becomes larger and these two fuctions save a load of time.

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Corel Draw is vector based.

I like it better, so that's what I use. I get a nicer graphic quality with it as well. Have you seen tonepad's pdfs?

Fp

[Dirk_Hendrik]

Except for the Eagle mentioned that is..

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Dirk is right. With the programs mentioned that is something that has to be done manually.

Fp

[Dirk_Hendrik]

Corel Draw is vector based.

I like it better, so that's what I use. I get a nicer graphic quality with it as well. Have you seen tonepad's pdfs?

Fp

Does vector mean connectivity? Technically no. Vector means a line from a point to another point with additional data on how the connection is made.
As for the tonepad layouts, yes. Without wanting to be negatively critical a next step regarding PCB design comes in. Style. In Tonepad PCB layouts I see solutions which I would never use (but may be handy for the unexperienced)