Four pedals in one enclosure? Will it work?

[vanessa]

A friend of mine has used the same setup for years. He's sick of having to bring all his favorite pedals (four in total) to gigs. He asked me if it would be possible for me to build them all into one enclosure. I have searched the forum and came up with similar questions and answers for two, but four?

Here is his line up:

guitar > ross compressor > wah > mosfet boost > fuzz face > amp

I think the wah, boost, fuzz face will all work off one battery (with out LED) but I'm not familiar with the ross compressor in terms of battery usage.

The others don't use that much battery, but if I put the ross in there would I go through batteries like heck?

I thought if it was too much maybe have a second battery separate and also put a stereo jack on the output to turn the ross on or maybe a combo of the ross and the booster.

Space? How am I going to fit it all? I have it all worked out, it will all fit and I can get it all in a standard Crybaby enclosure. I just have to draw out PCB's with trimpots on them so he can set his favorite settings and leave it alone, and run toggles off them for on/off access.

[Mark Hammer]

For any sort of reliability,this will need a wallwart or at least something heftier than a 9v.  That it CAN work is separate from whether it will all continue to work pleasingly after a couple of hours.  A 6-pack of AA's could work, but you would need to know where to stick them.

I think the biggest challenge would be having a usable spacing between switches and controls.  That's a lotta stuff to turn on and off, and a person needs to be able to turn one hing without accidentally turning on/off other things.  Planning, kiddo, planning.  Go slow and methodical.  Take measurements.

[powerplayj]

3 in one has been done commercially.......

[vanessa]

I've got most of the measurements worked out. I have an idea for mini toggles up at the toe. The ross/boost board would actually be stuck to the bottom cover plate with enough wire to allow the cover to come on and off easily. Its location would also be up in the toe section as there is plenty room between the cover plate and the wah pot. The Fuzz/Wah would be on the same board in the usual location.

Mark, maybe it would be best to use two separate 9 volts for the two? I have two places to put the second 9 volt battery. One along side the opposite side of the wah pot. The other right under the toggle switches in between the switch and the front of the enclosure.

He wants the fuzz face on all the time (for the most part) and the Ross compressor. I figure having those on separate power supplies would be key. The boost and the wah are really secondary pedals in the setup. I could use a stereo jack on the output to turn the secondary power supply on when the output jack is in use.

So really I would just be doing the 2 pedals with one supply trick like on past posts. The only twist is all four would all be in the same box.

[Marcos - Munky]

Like Mark said, my suggestion is to use a wallwart power supply. You can add a little box with 4 footswitches to turn the effects on and off. you can do this easily just with a box to put the switches and a hole in the wah enclosure to run the cables in it. Also, you can put LEDs to see what's on and what's off.

[KMS]

If you can get the right size box and power supply(s) you can put as many as you want in the box. If your using stuff that makes radio frequencies or inductance problems, I'm sure some type of shielding, special placement, or opposing circuit can be achieved. 

I think trim pots in place of what is currently out in the open will eventually cause the Dunlop box to be shed like a snake skin and evolve into a larger box. Some electronics stores Like Gateway Electronics have ready made boxes on their shelves (in large quantity)  that are all set up with an incline, control panel, about 1.5 to 2 inches off the floor, and perfect for a "stompanlebox".  They cost upwards of $40 and I have seen some as high as $80.

[vanessa]

Well my question would be if I had to only put two in the wah enclosure what would be the best two?

My guess would be the fuzz face and the wah. The wah with a small buffer before the fuzz face. The fuzz face would have trimpots for the controls. This would be like a Jen Fuzz wah etc… Not much battery use? Does anyone have experience with the Jen (Shin-ei) fuzz wah's battery usage?

[petemoore]

  Mine seemed to like to be 'spread flat', conjecture from experimentation.
  Sometimes I get away with it great, I stratoblastered the FF output in the same box...works great.
  Preboosting FF seemed to be more hit or miss.
  I had an LPB/Obsidian [one or the other effect DPDT wiring, instead of bypass] and couldn't get the humming oscillation from it without turning knobs down.
  I've done more than two 4 effect 'panels', from aluminum reciever face plates, One now has Splitter-Blend, BMP, Wah, LPB, and Phase, with what I consider 'inherent circuit' noises, no layout noises.
  Starting at one end, To first DPDT bypass Sw.> short wire to first circuit's input>DPDT to next circuit [on to last Cct. like that], all the circuits in a row going down the length of the panel, then a shielded output wire from the last circuit or switch. With the circuits one after the other, short wires and one shielded, it seemed to turn out just fine. I keep the circuit board bottoms about 2mil from the ground plane, or one clear plastic packaging sheet thickness.

[vanessa]

The reason why I ask is one way of providing the boost circuit for him could be doing it the same way it's done on the Fulltone Clyde Deluxe with a variable resistor for the input resistor (volume) and a trimpot off the first transistor (gain). Then he would get the boost, wah, and fuzz in one pedal and my guess with this setup it would not go through a lot of batteries.

I'm just wondering if the wah right next to the fuzz face would create a lot of unwanted noise. I could shield the wah inductor with that metal stuff (I forget the name; I have it written down some where).

[varialbender]

How about 4 in 1, 2 x 9-volts, stereo jacks for in and out to turn on the 9-volts, expression pedal input for wah circuit, 4 stomp switches? I guess you could do it in the wah enclosure, just a bit odd.

[Processaurus]

The Ross compressor doesn't take much power, I've checked it but don't remember exactly, I think about 3-5mA.  None of the other stuff takes much power, if you're using a traditional wah.  I actually think you could run all that junk off a single battery.  I like the idea of stuffing it all in a wah pedal too. It seems like your friend differs from most forumites in that he's been using the same rig for years, possibly even with about the same settings.  Maybe he doesn't need tons of knobs to twiddle.  Definately sounds like a non-twiddler.

For noise considerations I don't think theres anything inherently doomed about sticking all that junk in the same box.  If there was noise, you could make thin metal sheilds in between the different boards, even solder them onto the boards.  You could star ground the different effects if you're worried about ground noise.  I'd probably run a shielded cable from the input to the ross.  

Here's an idea, if you need extra room or a couple stompswitches, you could fabricate a new bottom plate to the wah pedal that extends beyond the end facing toward the musician.  Mount a new little box (like the Bud box thats 3.5"x1.5"x1") on that with switches, another battery, etc.  Check out how the switches are layed out on the Mu-tron C200 Vol/Wah.  

[octafish]

I think I'd prefer it this way:
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/jiab/jiab.htm
I'd keep the wah seperate. Then you have cut the pedal count by half and you retain the versatility of the original four pedals.
Geofex to the rescue again!

[vanessa]

The Ross compressor doesn't take much power, I've checked it but don't remember exactly, I think about 3-5mA.  None of the other stuff takes much power, if you're using a traditional wah.  I actually think you could run all that junk off a single battery.  I like the idea of stuffing it all in a wah pedal too. It seems like your friend differs from most forumites in that he's been using the same rig for years, possibly even with about the same settings.  Maybe he doesn't need tons of knobs to twiddle.  Definately sounds like a non-twiddler.

You're right on the money. In fact this all got started because a while back he wanted me to build his boxes without the knobs. He just wanted internal trimpots as he only uses the same settings night after night (setup could be less of a pain). The only thing he kicks on (with foot) is the boost and the wah and he said when he uses the wah it's for leads so he has to kick on the boost before the wah then kick in the wah (pain in the but for him). He wants the boost to kick in with the wah at the same time.
Later he was thinking of having me build a pedal board without knobs. Then it hit me that I might be able to get it all into a wah shell since he has no need for knobs or stomp switches.

I think I'd prefer it this way:
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/jiab/jiab.htm
I'd keep the wah seperate. Then you have cut the pedal count by half and you retain the versatility of the original four pedals.
Geofex to the rescue again!

The power supply looks like it reflects the Uni-Vibe's need for that kind of juice. The Fuzz Face and Octavia do not need that kind of juice. My friend is not using a Vibe in his setup and he wants to stay away from having to use an outlet.

[Processaurus]

In fact this all got started because a while back he wanted me to build his boxes without the knobs. He just wanted internal trimpots as he only uses the same settings night after night (setup could be less of a pain).

Have you seen the small 16mm panel mount pots that have a screwdriver slot adjustment instead of a shaft?  Easier to adjust settings, but there aren't any knobs to inevitably get bumped. 

[Mark Hammer]

A common misconception about effects is that when you bypass you aren't using power.  In fact the effects are ALWAYS on.  The bypass switch just ignores what the effects can do at the moment.  Now, the effect certainly uses more current if there is a status indicator LED during the "on" state, and if you are feeding the effect signal, you are necessarily asking it to deliver current in some manner, but if you have 4 things in the box/chassis, then you have 4 things "on"; hence the string urging toi use a wallwart or something with greater lifespan than a 9v or two.  If your freind would rather not use an adaptor, you should be able to pick up a 6-pack or even 8-pack battery clip for AA's from a local outlet (Rat Shack).  The lifespan of a sextet of plain vanilla AA's will easily rival that of a pair of top-quality 9v alkalines, for a fraction of the price (around here, a half dozen AA's would set me back maybe $1.50).  If space were an issue, that would be one thing, but if you have the space, bigger batteries can be a godsend.

The placement of the fuzzface "near" the wah is not an issue.  After all, Dallas-Arbiter themselves stuck a Fuzz-Face in with a wah, as did many other companies.  The key thing would be to make sure that the wires going to the pots don't criss-cross so that high gain signal has an opportunity to leak back to an earlier stage.

[vanessa]

In fact this all got started because a while back he wanted me to build his boxes without the knobs. He just wanted internal trimpots as he only uses the same settings night after night (setup could be less of a pain).

Have you seen the small 16mm panel mount pots that have a screwdriver slot adjustment instead of a shaft?  Easier to adjust settings, but there aren't any knobs to inevitably get bumped. 

Oh yes, those look very cool but take up more space and would require me to do extra work (shhhhh, don't let him know about them LOL).

A common misconception about effects is that when you bypass you aren't using power.  In fact the effects are ALWAYS on.  The bypass switch just ignores what the effects can do at the moment.  Now, the effect certainly uses more current if there is a status indicator LED during the "on" state, and if you are feeding the effect signal, you are necessarily asking it to deliver current in some manner, but if you have 4 things in the box/chassis, then you have 4 things "on"; hence the string urging toi use a wallwart or something with greater lifespan than a 9v or two.  If your freind would rather not use an adaptor, you should be able to pick up a 6-pack or even 8-pack battery clip for AA's from a local outlet (Rat Shack).  The lifespan of a sextet of plain vanilla AA's will easily rival that of a pair of top-quality 9v alkalines, for a fraction of the price (around here, a half dozen AA's would set me back maybe $1.50).  If space were an issue, that would be one thing, but if you have the space, bigger batteries can be a godsend.

I understand that the power is on, and when the effect is not on you're in affect bypassing just the effect not the power. It's been my understanding that when an effect is bypassed you are not putting a (the same type of) load on the circuit, thus drawing less current.

Unfortunately space would be an issue with AA's. I can't see where I could put a 6 pack of those in the wah including the PCB boards.

[Mark Hammer]

Unfortunately space would be an issue with AA's. I can't see where I could put a 6 pack of those in the wah including the PCB boards.

Understood.  In which case, go with a 9v but try to build in wallwart capacity in case the battery proves to not be enough for the job.

If your friend has a pedal board to which this franken-pedal will be inserted, then you should ask about where the most convenient or leastproblematic spot for a wall-wart jack would be, and then work around that.  It's my experience that a number of wah pedals stick power jacks where they create the biggest pain in the butt for running cables.  That may be just me, though.

[jimbob]

mark said
"It's my experience that a number of wah pedals stick power jacks where they create the biggest pain in the butt for running cables. "

I agree. The power cord to my wah is always in the way. Im thinking about drilling a hole in the front of the wah enclosure. That would certainly get that wire out of the way.

I wish I had that captain coconut. I been admiring that for some time!

[vanessa]

mark said
"It's my experience that a number of wah pedals stick power jacks where they create the biggest pain in the butt for running cables. "

I agree. The power cord to my wah is always in the way. Im thinking about drilling a hole in the front of the wah enclosure. That would certainly get that wire out of the way.

I wish I had that captain coconut. I been admiring that for some time!

You should build that Geo all in one (above) and take it for a test drive.