Clean Octave Down

[Garrett]

I'm looking to build a clean octave down such as the boss brown box OC-2.  I have no use for the fuzz/oct which i have already.
Anyone have a layout tuct away somewhere?  I use to own a oc-2. Guess I should have kept it.

           ROCKATRONIC, Garrett

[Mark Hammer]

There ARE no clean octave downs.  Virtually all analog octave downs use a flip-flop to generate a frequency-divided note which is half or one quarter of the detected fundamental.  The flip flop will produce a square wave, which is why it sounds fuzzy.  Different products that you hear vary in the way and amount they filter that square wave to sound a little more like a bass.  If you currently have an octave-divider, or can purchase a used one cheaply, simply find out where you can filter the octave down on the circuit, and add the needed components (usually a simply cap to ground in the right place will suffice).

[StephenGiles]

Mark, I said the first 6 words of your post and then scrolled down!!
Stephen

[Garrett]

Not the answer I was looking for. I don't want to muck up the foxx tone machine. I may hate it now but later I may not. I was looking for a fresh build project. And YEs Mark there is a clean octave down to my ear (the oc-2).  Technically is another story, which you know all about.  I just looked on ebay and the 0c-2 are so cheap that it probably wouldn't be worth the hassel of building one like it.

               Thanks anyways, Garrock

[idiot savant]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/pedals/shocktave.html


not completely clean per se, but clean enough for me.

[Mark Hammer]

You do realize that the Foxx is an octave up, where the OC-2 provides octaves down, right?

[KMS]

What about the Boss PS-5?

It's a multi function pitch shifter.

Check out the Cm  harmony clip.  http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/src=SearchDex/search/detail/base_pid/151330

Sounds pretty clean so the FX can be made to sound clean. 

Also could split your signal with a splitter and then mix it back together (if the FX is not clean enough) and have wet/dry with your original sound being clean, which will add to the clean sound your looking for.

[MartyMart]

There's a coloursound octave down, uses 10 transistors so could be a "pig" to get
right  !!   clean though .....  I have an original and it tracks quite well.

Marty.

[Garrett]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/analogalchemy/pedals/shocktave.html


not completely clean per se, but clean enough for me.

Simple enough, I'll give it a go.


Thanks, idiot     .....lol

[Dirk_Hendrik]

And YEs Mark there is a clean octave down to my ear (the oc-2). 

Which simply means you're wrong in what's clean. An oc2, as well as for example a DOD ovtave, a pearl octaver etc etc all convert the input signal to a sqauare wave, put it through a flipflip for divide by 2 and filter the output wave to something which more or less sounds like a cheap Casio keyboard. Nothing in that signal has the slightest resemblence with the original input signal.

[Garrett]

And YEs Mark there is a clean octave down to my ear (the oc-2). 

Which simply means you're wrong in what's clean. An oc2, as well as for example a DOD ovtave, a pearl octaver etc etc all convert the input signal to a sqauare wave, put it through a flipflip for divide by 2 and filter the output wave to something which more or less sounds like a cheap Casio keyboard. Nothing in that signal has the slightest resemblence with the original input signal.

who is to say i'm wrong about what i think is clean to my ear?  OOOOHHH no   Why don't you go kiss mark;s ass a little more. lol   I wasn't trying to disrespect Mark. I value what he has to say always and have learned alot from him.  Like I said he is very technical and knowledgable about effects.  I apreciate the knowledge of how down octaves work. Thank You, Garrock

P.S.  Casio Keyboards ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A.S.P.]

then there`s POG...

[Dirk_Hendrik]

who is to say i'm wrong about what i think is clean to my ear?  OOOOHHH no   

Well, in this case, I am. Just turn off  the direct signal and listen find any resemblence of the original tone in there. You won't find it. Simple.

Why don't you go kiss mark;s ass a little more. lol   I wasn't trying to disrespect Mark. I value what he has to say always and have learned alot from him.  Like I said he is very technical and knowledgable about effects.  I apreciate the knowledge of how down octaves work. Thank You, Garrock

Well then, why are you using this kind of language. The way you expess yourself is disrespectfull. That doesn't rhyme with a followup stating you respect someone for his or her knowledge?

[jmusser]

I believe RDV has a sound sample of the Shoctave Harmonizer over on his "Fat Boy Electronics" site. Give it a listen, and see if that's what you're after. I have talked about my Arion MOC-1 a million times on here, which I think is one of the best sounding 1 and 2 octave down pedals at any price. I think it sounds more realistic (like a bass on the thin strings) than the Shoctave does, probably because of filtering. What Mark and the others are trying to say, is that you can take an octave down circuit and filter the square wave buzz out of it to make it sound like it clean, but theoretically it's impossible. You'll just have listen to samples of what sounds "cleanest" or I should say more filtered and bass guitar sounding, because there is in reality NO clean octave up or down.Your ear will just have to tell you what sounds more bass guitar like, because asking for a clean octave down or up for that matter is like asking for dry water. Asking the question the way you did, is always going to get the same result. If it was "What DIY octave down pedal sounds cleanest?" If you were to look in search, you'd find this question has alreay been asked and answered (in probably the same way) a dozen times.

[Garrett]

who is to say i'm wrong about what i think is clean to my ear?  OOOOHHH no   

Well, in this case, I am. Just turn off  the direct signal and listen find any resemblence of the original tone in there. You won't find it. Simple.

Why don't you go kiss mark;s ass a little more. lol   I wasn't trying to disrespect Mark. I value what he has to say always and have learned alot from him.  Like I said he is very technical and knowledgable about effects.  I apreciate the knowledge of how down octaves work. Thank You, Garrock

Well then, why are you using this kind of language. The way you expess yourself is disrespectfull. That doesn't rhyme with a followup stating you respect someone for his or her knowledge?

the respect was geared toward Mark not you.  You got yourself into this.

[Garrett]

I believe RDV has a sound sample of the Shoctave Harmonizer over on his "Fat Boy Electronics" site. Give it a listen, and see if that's what you're after. I have talked about my Arion MOC-1 a million times on here, which I think is one of the best sounding 1 and 2 octave down pedals at any price. I think it sounds more realistic (like a bass on the thin strings) than the Shoctave does, probably because of filtering. What Mark and the others are trying to say, is that you can take an octave down circuit and filter the square wave buzz out of it to make it sound like it clean, but theoretically it's impossible. You'll just have listen to samples of what sounds "cleanest" or I should say more filtered and bass guitar sounding, because there is in reality NO clean octave up or down.Your ear will just have to tell you what sounds more bass guitar like, because asking for a clean octave down or up for that matter is like asking for dry water. Asking the question the way you did, is always going to get the same result. If it was "What DIY octave down pedal sounds cleanest?" If you were to look in search, you'd find this question has alreay been asked and answered (in probably the same way) a dozen times.

  Thanks there Jmuss,
I understood this from the very first reply. Things just got out of hand.  I didn't ask how it works. But hey, it was good to know.  I have started on a build which is what I was seeking out to do. I will also try some filtering as Mark has suggested.  Thanks and I hope this is the last thread.

[JimRayden]

You got yourself into this.

The last thing I would do is join this immature %^&*fight, but I just had to comment that this is not a propriate way to reply a person answering your post. I personally didn't see anything offensive about Hendrik's post and it's rediculous to just carp at someone expressing his opinion. I'm not trying to find out who started, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

I wouldn't have bothered replying at all but the recent post I quoted just ticked me off enough.

------------
Jimbo

PS: Or if you can't get a polite message... Garret, I know one has to act cruel and rough for the hard-rock style to have a full effect, but please, keep it down on the internet. Or at least these forums.

PS2: I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to speak my mind.

[Garrett]

You got yourself into this.

The last thing I would do is join this immature %^&*fight, but I just had to comment that this is not a propriate way to reply a person answering your post. I personally didn't see anything offensive about Hendrik's post and it's rediculous to just carp at someone expressing his opinion. I'm not trying to find out who started, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

I wouldn't have bothered replying at all but the recent post I quoted just ticked me off enough.

------------
Jimbo

PS: Or if you can't get a polite message... Garret, I know one has to act cruel and rough for the hard-rock style to have a full effect, but please, keep it down on the internet. Or at least these forums.

PS2: I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to speak my mind.

Jimbo , well put . I am at fault. I got a little out of hand. Sorry Hendrix.  Let's just put this in the past.

[Mark Hammer]

Boys, boys, boys.  Keep it down in there.  Don't make me come downstairs and shut everything off! 

All confusion can be solved by simply pointing out that while flip-flop based dividers start out with a square wave, which will obviously not reflect the original note particularly faithfully, that square wave CAN be filtered and otherwise processed in a way which makes it resemble a muted bass note, which is more or less what a lot of octave-divider users want from their pedals.  Indeed, when I built my Rocktave a while back, one of my first thoughts was that since I could make the octave down be the foreground tone, it might make a reasonable fake bass for home recording purposes, as long as I trimmed off some treble here, and a bit over there, and did this, and that and....

One of the big differences between octave-divider pedals is the extent to which they permit the square-wave origins to be evident.  Some players will want to retain the relative aggressiveness of a lightly lowpass-filtered squarewave.  The Blue Box and E-H Microsynth readily come to mind.  Others will strive towards a tamer and more filtered octave, that tries to suggest single note bass playing.  It is this second approach that I believe most players have in mind when discussing "clean" octave down.

[puretube]

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