How does the Hendrix wah compare to the mod-able wah at GGG

[audioguy]

How does the Hendrix wah compare to the mod-able wah at GGG? I think I want to make the full blown unit with the cap selectors and the dual inductors... but how does it sound compaired to the Hendrix wah? I know I want more tonal control, but I dont know what to expect from the GGG project.
Anyone have sound samples???


Thanks!

Audioguy

[audioguy]

no one?

[Dai H.]

what "Hendrix wah" are you referring to? Dunlop?

[audioguy]

Yes... the Dunlop JH1

[formerMember1]

i think the dunlop hendrix wah was horrible, but others like it, i think,...

if you build a wah, you should be able to swap one or two parts, and make it a dunlop hendrix wah,...

i am still tweakin my Clyde McCoy clone,..

[Dai H.]

I would guess it sounds nothing like Hendrix. My Roger Mayer (RM as in guy who worked with Hendrix) wah kit didn't sound like Hendrix either, so go figure, lol... As far as what seems useful to make variable, I would say the 470 ohm, 33k ohm, the 10nF freq. cap, and I suppose the 1.5k as well. Put some sockets and pots in, and have at it!

[formerMember1]

make sure you research what parts you would like to use in the wah, pots, inductors, caps, etc,...it can get pretty expensive building a wah if you decide to change an inductor or pot,...

I am up to over a $150.00, and just spent over a $80.00 on different caps and such, and now am probably gonna try a different inductor for another 38.00, and also bought a new pot, lpus shipping for all the different parts too, so i guess i should have just bought the Teese Picture wah, but othes haven't had so much trouble,...i guess i am picky, and also a perfectionist,...    total so far  almost $300.00, and just barely now getting the wah tone i want,...i think  I do have a better tone than a stock wah by vox or dunlop reissues, but probably could have just modded them to do what

don't let me discourage you though, others had gave great reviews of thier own wahs,...

[StephenGiles]

 
Stephen

[RDV]

My DIY wah is in the shell from my JH fuzz-wah if that tells you anything.

What a "spinning in your grave" thing.

RDV

[Dai H.]

make sure you research what parts you would like to use in the wah, pots, inductors, caps, etc,...it can get pretty expensive building a wah if you decide to change an inductor or pot,...

I am up to over a $150.00, and just spent over a $80.00 on different caps and such, and now am probably gonna try a different inductor for another 38.00, and also bought a new pot, lpus shipping for all the different parts too, so i guess i should have just bought the Teese Picture wah, but othes haven't had so much trouble,...i guess i am picky, and also a perfectionist,...    total so far  almost $300.00, and just barely now getting the wah tone i want,...i think  I do have a better tone than a stock wah by vox or dunlop reissues, but probably could have just modded them to do what

don't let me discourage you though, others had gave great reviews of thier own wahs,...

right it might make make more sense in the long run to buy an RMC3 or something like that if you want adjustability. Teese stuff delivers on the tone IMO and probably the Fulltone too. Actually come to think of it, my guinea pig GCB I bought new, the Roger Mayer kit I put in later bought new so I suppose it would've been smarter to buy a Teese or something but neither of the aforementioned companies existed back then. I guess if you already have a GCB or JH-1 etc. housing that you aren't happy with or got one for cheap then I guess it makes more sense to buy a new inductor, pot, etc.

[formerMember1]

yeah audio guy, make sure you research thoroughly about what you want the wah to sound like, read reviews, and try decide what inductor you think is right for you, then the pot etc,...Only reason i am saying this is becuase i found out that for me to get the wah tone i want, it is difficult, it isn't as difficult as other pedals IMHO, but i didn't build the more complicated pedals like Mark Hammer and fretwire and others do/did, so i don't know,...

Then again it is still hard, becuase i hate the dunlop red fasel compared to a Halo, others like the Dunlop fasel reissue,..

I just found out about area51's inductor, i think i might try one of them, they look good,...

sorry for being a rambling man,... just trying to help, and give back to forum,..

[audioguy]

Im going to use the Dual Inductor layout... I think thats going to be the way to go.... with a yellow and a red. We'll see what we get. Im not trying to clone the Hendrix or get a Hendrix tone. I was using it as a reference point more than anything. Most of us know what that wah sounds like... but only the folks that built the Madable Wah knows what that sounds like.
Anyway... I dont think I'll be doing the 6 cap selector, but I will be externally mounting the trim pots. It should be a fun build!

Thanks guys,

Audioguy

[Jaicen_solo]

All this talk of inductor swapping really aggravates me. An inductor is a passive device, it doesn't have an mojo as far as i'm concerned.
Som of the original Fasel inductors exhibited harmonic distortion due to poor manufacturing. You're not going to get that now unless you're winding your own, (come to think of it, why don't boutique pickup makers do inductors?).
If you want to alter anything about the frequency response or sweep of your wah circuit, just play with cap and resistor values. There really is no mystery. Say for instance, instead of subbing in a larger inductor, just decrease the capacitance in paralle with it. This will have the same effect. There really is no need to go buying expensive Mojo inductors, when some $0.02 caps will suffice! The sole purpose of the inductor is to pass low frequencies to ground, and impede high frequencies. It's not even in the signal chain!!!!!!

[audioguy]

All this talk of inductor swapping really aggravates me. An inductor is a passive device, it doesn't have an mojo as far as i'm concerned.
Som of the original Fasel inductors exhibited harmonic distortion due to poor manufacturing. You're not going to get that now unless you're winding your own, (come to think of it, why don't boutique pickup makers do inductors?).
If you want to alter anything about the frequency response or sweep of your wah circuit, just play with cap and resistor values. There really is no mystery. Say for instance, instead of subbing in a larger inductor, just decrease the capacitance in paralle with it. This will have the same effect. There really is no need to go buying expensive Mojo inductors, when some $0.02 caps will suffice! The sole purpose of the inductor is to pass low frequencies to ground, and impede high frequencies. It's not even in the signal chain!!!!!!

Wow... Ive only been researching this for a couple of days... and according to everything I have found, your assesment goes against... well let just say its not a popular position.
But thanks for chiming in!

[Plectrum]

Quote from: Jaicen_solo on Today at 10:31:32 AM
All this talk of inductor swapping really aggravates me. An inductor is a passive device, it doesn't have an mojo as far as i'm concerned.
Som of the original Fasel inductors exhibited harmonic distortion due to poor manufacturing. You're not going to get that now unless you're winding your own, (come to think of it, why don't boutique pickup makers do inductors?).
If you want to alter anything about the frequency response or sweep of your wah circuit, just play with cap and resistor values. There really is no mystery. Say for instance, instead of subbing in a larger inductor, just decrease the capacitance in paralle with it. This will have the same effect. There really is no need to go buying expensive Mojo inductors, when some $0.02 caps will suffice! The sole purpose of the inductor is to pass low frequencies to ground, and impede high frequencies. It's not even in the signal chain!!!!!!

It's a funny area for me... I read that the harmonic distortion in the fasel was due to it's core being "magnetized" by the bias voltage over years, theres no mention of magnetism in the dunlop blurb. (anyone tried sticking a magnet on their inductor?)
They may be "good" inductors, but the use of the fasel moniker seems to be (the usual) marketing baloni.
I'm no schooled engineer, but:
I did however think they were effectively in the signal chain, as passing frequencies to ground has a direct and absolute bearing on the signal content.
I also thaught that, the resonant frequency of the Inductors themselves (and other electro-magnetic effects) has a part to play. (?)


Grant.

[Jaicen_solo]

Of course, the inductor will have a resonant frequency, inductance can only be measured in relation to frequency. For example, a 500mH incuctor will only be 500mH at something like 1kHz. At 100Hz, it will have a very small inductance.
My point is that under normal circumstances, the inductor is not adding anything in particular to the sound of the wah. It is much easier to achieve a different sound by altering cap values. At the end of the day, it's only a bandpass filter!
Your first port of call should be the Geofex wah technology article.

[lacto]

Forgive my newbie input here. Regarding inductors and their effect on the sound or tone in a wah circuit, you can talk electronic theory all you want, the real world test is to compare them in the circuit. I have spent  (some might say wasted) quite a bit of money buying several different inductors to do just that real world test. Leaving all component values the same and plugging in the different inductors, each one "sounds" different. Each one brings a different character, range, and tone to the wah. Anyone with hearing will be able to notice the difference, it is not subtle. Subjectivity comes into play regarding which one prefers, not in the fact that distinct differences exist. I defer to those more knowledgleable than me in electronics to explain the "why" of it, I just now know that it exists and it is not mojo b.s. Playing with capacitor/resistor values further effect whatever inductor is in the circuit, but changing the inductor alone greatly affects the sound of the wah. Does this mean that the inductor is NOT a passive device in the circuit?  I don't know, I defer to the experts for that one.

[Jaicen_solo]

Of course I agree completely. Subjective sound is just that, subjective! That's why I don't trust it. I prefer to reason things through rather than just accept that it sounds better.
In my view, the only way the inductor can have any magical effect ofther than HF Impedance, is if it either has a magnetic offset (poor material, unlikely with modern inductors), or if the inductor itself is carrying large currents, enough to induce a magnetic offset. In theory, this could create harmonic distortion, but wether this effect would be apparent in a typical wah circuit i'm not sure.

[kevn]

I would assume that the value of the inductance is important in a wah circuit, so could it be that people who like, say, the red fassel, were lucky enough to get one with the right inductance, and people who dont like it were unfortunate to get one with , say, too low an inductance? There was a thread I saw here several weeks ago where someone had measured several, I believe, Red Fassels and found them to be all over the place. Varying from like 100 to 600 mH's.

I would guess (uneducatedly)  that this is probably the most likely reason for all all of the differences people are hearing across inductors from the same & different manufacturers. For the people out there who have done comparison testing, have you measured the inductance of the various inductors you used?

Also, can anyone tell me how to measure inductance? I'm curious to know what the value is of the Red fassel I put in my wah recently.

[Paul Marossy]

I would assume that the value of the inductance is important in a wah circuit, so could it be that people who like, say, the red fassel, were lucky enough to get one with the right inductance, and people who dont like it were unfortunate to get one with , say, too low an inductance?

It's important, but it's not as important as people would like to think.

There was a thread I saw here several weeks ago where someone had measured several, I believe, Red Fassels and found them to be all over the place. Varying from like 100 to 600 mH's.

Yep, they vary all over the place according to one source.

I would guess (uneducatedly)  that this is probably the most likely reason for all all of the differences people are hearing across inductors from the same & different manufacturers. For the people out there who have done comparison testing, have you measured the inductance of the various inductors you used?

It's part of the equation, but not the entire equation.

Also, can anyone tell me how to measure inductance? I'm curious to know what the value is of the Red fassel I put in my wah recently.

You need a DMM that measures inductance (or other device that can measure inductance).


Having said that, the actual value of the inductor is not as critical as people would like to think. All the inductor does is make it a resonant circuit (and adds some complimentary reactance). The singlemost critical thing in the circuit is really the feedback capacitor - this determines the current that goes thru it and thus the amount of reactance that is happening in the circuit. The wah circuit is really a resonant circuit that does a balancing act between apparent capacitance, true capacitance and finally reactance. Reactance is the key to how it works. The inductor is a secondary item in the overall scheme of things.

EDIT: It's maybe a little hard to follow, but if you read the original patent document, it explains exactly how it works. I had to read it a few times before it started to sink in... http://www.muzique.com/schem/wah-patent.pdf