Inductor's Role in Tone?

[formerMember1]

yeah paul, that is good thinking, i wonder that too!

I think it has to do with the series resistance too.  Maybe when a indutor is made to less mH, it has higher series resistance which would make the highs less thus more bass kinda, the highs boosted from lower inductance, and the mid range deepened.  Maybe kinda like those curly cords, how they are bassier and less treble but for some reason the low mid range gets boosted,...i am only trying to come up with an answer, don't know if i am right or far off,...
 
                 or
Maybe the lower mH inductors that were made for the old wahs, they didn't prefect it yet as far as everything for the recipe, so maybe they used 250mh or whatever, and it was too trebly, so instead of making the mH higher, they increased the series resistance or something,..and came up with a different tone,..like low inductance and high resistance is one sound, and higher inductance(500mh), and lower series resistance is another sound,..

i think that is why the arielfx sounds so different from the castledine, maybe the ariel has a little less series resistance or something,...cuz the ariel has more "wild" "wah" treble/midrange to it, than the castledine, which is more subtle a sound,...

just my 2cents that probably aren't even worth that,

[Paul Marossy]

Well, formerMember1, you're probably onto something there. I've been thinking about all the different sorts of inductors used in these wah circuits, and I think there has to be differences in the way that they all sound (ignoring the concept of a "perfect inductor") due to construction. I mean you've got the large core halo, the smaller core Fasel, the film can inductor, etc. Yeah, they are all "500mH", but they are all constructed differently - that's got to mess with the overall sound to one degree or another...

[formerMember1]

Yeah that is definitely true,..

Did anyone ever compare a modern day halo replica to an original?


I guess it is the same as a winding a pickup, different magnets alnico II and Alnico 5, and cermaic etcs,..they affect the pickup, so what about inductors, the material must have a big role in tone,...but there is no info about what the original material exactly was,..is there?

[Paul Marossy]

I think a certain few people know the actual composition of those ferrite compounds that were used in those old inductors, but they are a closely guarded secret...

[formerMember1]

i wanna add something to the thread i forgot about,..or might have mentioned some where and forget i did,..

I already gave my post of inductor tones from fulltone, arielfx, and castledine,. 

I have added the fish caps, and the wah sounds better then the avx boxed metal films.  More warmer.  BUt my reason for posting is the inductors still sound different, but not as much as with the avx box metal films,..i guess cuz the avx were thinner and trebly sounding it showed more of the inductor tone, but the fish caps hide some of that nuance of halo swapping,..

It is now a close call between the fulltone and the arielfx, the fulltone seems to have more vintage vibe, but the arielfx seems more midrangey/bass/thicker. Casltedine is still too sublte/  too bassy or something/

If i built another, i would use either the fulltone or arielfx.

just thought i would update. 

[markphaser]

There is 9 different materials that were used in different inductors. These 9 different materials Mr. RMS wha wah knows about how the inductors were made and what materials was used in the coils

Does anyone know the names of these 9 different Materials used in wha inductors?

[Paul Marossy]

There is 9 different materials that were used in different inductors. These 9 different materials Mr. RMS wha wah knows about how the inductors were made and what materials was used in the coils

Does anyone know the names of these 9 different Materials used in wha inductors?

I've read that interview with Teese again where he talks about this. Sorry, my memory failed me, it was "dozens of different ferrite compounds available to be made into inductors". There were two different ferrite compounds that were used. Oh heck, just read this article: http://www.analogman.com/kraft.htm 

[markphaser]

What other kinds of  ferrite compounds are there for inductors?

why did they use these ferrite compounds in the inductors?

What did the ferrite compounds do ?

[Paul Marossy]

What did the ferrite compounds do ?

They compose the core of the inductor. The other questions probably can't be answered with the information that us mere mortals can get our hands on...

[markphaser]

They compose the core of the inductor

So what does that do to the inductor ?

Do u know the names of these ferrite compounds?

How does these ferrite compounds changes the tone?

[Seljer]

They compose the core of the inductor

So what does that do to the inductor ?

Do u know the names of these ferrite compounds?

How does these ferrite compounds changes the tone?

kind of shooting into the dark as I'm not really a master of these things:

The inductance depends apart from the wire, number of windings and size of the thing also of the permeability of the core material (degree of magnetisation of a material in response to a magnetic field)
An inductor with an air core will have less inductance than than one with a metal core


In my opinion, as far as wahwah inductors go, they can be different among each other just like guitar pickups are different from each other...

[markphaser]

permeability depends on the metal film can Vs the TDK red box?

  What ferrite compounds are there for wha inductors?

[formerMember1]

Mark, it seems you are very interested in inductors.

Did you read tech of wah at geofx, he talks about the inductors, and inductors used from radio shack.  Smallbear sells inductor kits.


Very few people know what the ferrite compund was  Those are usually the inductors they don't sell seperately and use only in their wahs. 

I can tell you that other than winding your own, the closest you can get is the arielfx or the fulltone.  Teese doesn't sell his, and fulltone deosn't sell his anymore.

[Paul Marossy]

Very few people know what the ferrite compund was

That's the point that I was trying to make...

[markphaser]

The ferrite compound do u think its in the patents or copyrighs this information how did Mr.RMS and fulltone get this information about these special ferrite compounds to use in wha wha inductors?

[waldo041]

i have wound my own couple of halo's from arielfx instruction's
http://www.arielfx.com/inductor_guide/guide.htm

and was wondering what exactly does the resistance value of an inductor do? this is the first thing that is measured in making them, so is it plausible that the resistor in parallel with the inductor works off the inductors resistance, thus giving different values ie 33k-100k for the parallel resistor to compensate for the varying inductor resistance. i was just wondering as everyone discuss's the mH values but not the resistance of a particular kind of inductor.

peace,
waldo

[markphaser]

have wound my own couple of halo's

with what  ferrite compound would you use ?

[R.G.]

and was wondering what exactly does the resistance value of an inductor do?

The resistance of an inductor limits the ultimate Q that it can ever have. Resistance in series or parallel with the inductor damps the inductor. Too much damping and the inductor can't produce a nice resonant response. The ideal value for series inductance is zero, which is impossible, but a lofty goal. You'll want a wah inductor's internal resistance well under 100 ohms to get things to come out right. If it's too high a Q (i.e. too low a resistance) you can further damp it with the 33K to 100K damping resistor across it. If the internal resistance is too high, you can't make the external resistance high enough to un-damp it, as there are no negative resistors.

[markphaser]

Dunlop Crybaby CB535Q Offers Variable 'Q' Control

It must have a variable pot in parallel with the wha inductor to get a variable Q

[waldo041]

thanks R.G.

i use the same halo core kits that arielfx uses, only i get mine from the cave. steve rocks!

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=368

and i use the #38 wire recommended.

i mention resistance of an inductor, cause i read from castledines research that there are varying resistance values from inductor to inductor.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.castledine/greenfuz/inductor.html

in making the 2 i  have, i also notice how easy it is to wind a halo with diferent resistance values and different mH values. the neater a coil is wound the higher the resistance will be. this means a not so neat wound coil could have more wire but less resistance, but also winding not enough wire will not get you to the mojo number of 500mH.  so there is definatley some trial an error in winding one. while the general consensus has been that 500mH is around the right inductance value, what is the right resistance value for an inductor? this will make a big difference in how much wire is wound on a coil  and may contribute to the mojo thing. just trying to help, as i am in pursuit as the same thing as you guy's

peace,
waldo