Flanger Vs Chorus Clocks

[DiyFreaque]

now what does it sound like,
when you achieve through-zero-flanging at significant lower clocking rates?

Hiss, distortion etc. issues aside, it would sound exactly the same.  Other than the groovy spaciness delay based effects sucker me in with, the other neato thing is that they offer a glimpse into time travel - well, time manipulation, at least.

Anyway, it's the relative difference in time between the two signals that produces the flanging effect, not the overall delay itself.  If a signal is delayed 100 ms and the other signal is modulated between 110 ms and 90 ms, the effect would be the same as if the fixed signal were delayed 20 ms and the other signal were modulated between 30 ms and 10 ms.

If you had a signal passing through one zillion stage device clocked at at a 1 zillion 500 thousand cycles per second, and another signal passing through a zillion stage device modulated between 1 zillion 450 thousand cycles and 1 zillion 550 thousand cycles, and you had a nuclear powered compandor on super-semi-conducting, liquid-oxygen-cooled substrate, your dad hitting a chord in celebration of your birth could be heard, through-zero-flanged, when the signal came out the other side of your inherited TZF flanger* on your 90th birthday.


*The Flanger Hoax 2000 - jointly designed by Ton and Stephen Hawking

Edit:  Hawking emailed and said I had to drop the clock rate by 1 zillion in order to get the overall 90 year delay. 

[markphaser]

Lowering the clock rate on a Flanger would do what to the BBD chip?

Does Lowering or Speeding up the clock rate sweep the notches/peaks differently?

[DiyFreaque]

Lowering the clock rate on a Flanger would do what to the BBD chip?

Clock the BBD more slowly, increasing the delay time.  Clock it too slowly and the delay would become audibly discrete from the original signal (you would hear the effect as more of an 'echo' rather than just reinforced notches and peaks). 

Does Lowering or Speeding up the clock rate sweep the notches/peaks differently?

The ratio of delay of one signal to an identical copy of the same signal determines the number and spacing of reinforced notches and peaks (teeth in the comb filter).  Somebody (Transmogrifox?) explained it much better in one of those other threads

[markphaser]

Thanks Diyfreaque for the help and information

How can the Clocks frequency change the BBD's delay time?

512 BBD chip = a delay time of ?
1024 BBD chip =a delay time of ?

[stinkfoot]

Back to Markphasers "thesis" project. 


Has anyone seen "walter" recently? 

Hmm... well: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1116711

Anyway, I'm off on (a very short) christmas vacation - have a good one!

/Andreas

[gez]

Can you imagine a thread with both of them? I think it would be like crossing the beams in Ghostbusters. 

I wonder which one would be the gate keeper and which one is the key master.... 

More like The Holy Grail:

"What is the wing clock speed velocity of a BBD chip"
"I don't know....AGHHHHHH!

[DiyFreaque]

Then, of course, Tim gets it....

"What is the clock speed velocity of a BBD chip?"

"Panasonic or Reticon?"

"I don't know.....Aaaaggghhhhh"

[DiyFreaque]

Markphaser,

The delay time depends entirely on the clock frequency.  You use the LFO to modulate the clock frequency in order to vary the delay time. 

So, if you're designing a device, say a flanger, the delay line of which you want to operate within a certain range (say 15 ms to 0.5 ms), then you look at what devices you have available to perform this task.

By this, I mean you choose the number of stages, how fast (in real life) it can be clocked, and so forth.

You determine some of this stuff by calculating how much delay you can get with a certain number of stages at a certain clock frequency.

Right off the bat, you take the number of stages your device has and divide that in half for your calculations (see above stuff about why you need to do that).

For example, if you start with a 1024 stage device, like an MN3007 or MN3207, or both sections of a SAD1024, you divide the 1024 in half to get 512.

Calculate the required clock frequency to get your minimum delay time of 0.5 ms by dividing the adjusted number of stages by the target delay time:

512/.0005 = 1024000

You've just determined that, if you're going to use a 1024 stage device, your maximum required clock frequency is 1.024 MHz.

Now, do the same with your targeted maximum delay time of 15 ms:

512/.015 = 34133.3

So, now you know your minimum clock frequency needs to be 34.133 kHz. 

Now you know your clock frequency must be modulated by the LFO from 34.133 kHz to 1.024 MHz.  You look at your candidate BBD's and figure out if they can do it.  The MN's might just do it if you take real care in buffering the clock signals and so forth.  The SAD1024 is a natural.

Then you may look at what clock frequencies would be needed if you're using a 512 stage device.  This will result in more easily attainable clock frequencies, but pay attention to the minimum clock frequency you're going to use - try to keep it at least three times higher in frequency than the maximum frequency of input signal you intend to use the flanger with.  You really need to consider the signal *and* its harmonic content.

The clock generator itself provides two pulses per cycle note that BBD's mentioned above have two clock inputs - this is required for the internal bucket brigade system.  It's not really a binary moment there in terms of digital data.  I highly recommend reading the SAD1024 datasheet; it's explained quite well there.

My final recommendation is to actually start building something anything, (but concentrate on that one thing!!!!) and I don't mean on your computer.  If you don't already have one, buy a breadboard.  You'll learn a lot.  Don't start out with any rare or irreplaceable parts, save them for when you have your chops down.

[puretube]

Scott: did I see 2 TDA1022`s on top of your this year`s christmaspresents wishlist?

[DiyFreaque]

 

The usual.  I leave Mouser, Allied, and Digikey catalogs strewn about the house, open to strategically chosen pages.

Last year the same tactics resulted in a watch.  The DIY'ers curse:  no one else in the family understands what joy a simple 16 legged device can bring.

This year, at the company gift exchange, I received six spools of 22 gauge insulated wire for breadboarding.  I was in heaven......

Cheerio,
Scott

[cd]

Back to Markphasers "thesis" project. 


Has anyone seen "walter" recently? 

ROTFLMAO I smelled that instantly too.  walters alert!!!!!  He posted here too:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1116711

[stm]

Back to Markphasers "thesis" project. 


Has anyone seen "walter" recently? 

ROTFLMAO I smelled that instantly too.  walters alert!!!!!  He posted here too:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1116711

Oh boy, that thread is simply... SURREAL

For every post answered he comes up with three or more new questions that don't show a sign of having understood the given answers!

Now to this forum, clicking to markphaser's name you get his profile statistics: (at the time of this posting, of course)

*Joined December 9th 2005
*Currently 144 posts
*"Full Member" position in less than a month!
*An average of 11 posts per day

If you consider each post comes with an average of three very open questions we are talking about more than 30 questions/day

A little projection: assuming the 11 posts/day rate is held during 365 days --a year-- this gives the terrifying number of 4011 posts  :icon_eek:  So by December 2006 he'll be breaking the 4k post barrier. WOW!

I've refrained as much as possible to make an off-topic comment like this, but I feel the forum is being monopolized for no good reason, and this thread seems to be going nowhere, despite so many nice people have spent plenty of their spare time trying to help.

[A.S.P.]

well, you can also have this:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?action=profile;u=4638

nevertheless,

MERRY Christmas, Sebastian.

[markphaser]

Whats the clock rate or frequency for double tracking effect?

Changing the clocks frequencys changes the BBD's delay time?

A BBD is just a sample and hold storage ram chip?

disconnect the LFO with a constant voltage Does what to the BBD's delay?

disconnect the LFO with a constant voltage Does what to the notches/peaks?

[lovric]

I'd like to ask if it's possible to somehow reproduce the 'ray gun' effect of Tommy Bolin on Quadrant 4 (Billy Cobham, Stratus) with PT80 or Rebote delay?

Allegedly, Bolin used echoplex and manipulated the recording head position with his foot...