Rangemaster with OC44 should it sound like this?

[vanessa]

I just built the Java Boost from Torchy's vero layout.

I only have one OC44, low leakage, about 108 hfe. It has a nice distortion tone with a tad bit of fizz on the decay. What I'm not hearing is a really pronounced treble boost in the higher octaves, say when playing leads.

I've tried a couple of other PNP transistors and biased them to 7V @ C. I have tried a few different 2N404's and a couple other types laying around found that doing leads in the higher octaves really boosts out the treble in front of the mix. The drawback with the other transistors is they seem to add a little more noise into the mix when not playing and a little more fizz on the decaying notes when say holding a single note (or chord) to decay.

So I guess I'm a little disappointed by my OC44. Should I hunt for another or is this normal compared to these other transistors?

[Doug_H]

Can you provide a soundclip? It doesn't sound right from your description but I wouldn't know without hearing it.

Someday I'm going to do a simple clip of my Rangemaster driving my Octal Fatness. Then we can do comparisons. Check the rangemaster clips at ToneFrenzy. That's pretty much what mine sounds like.

Doug

[vanessa]

I don't have a sound clip yet. The OC44 does sound good don't get me wrong. It just does not seem to burst out the treble notes above say the 12th fret like the other transistors I mentioned.

It's smoother than the others. If I could describe to you without a clip, it sounds (Java Boost with OC44) sort of like a fuzz face maxed with the guitar volume control down around 6 or 7 (cleaned up) and more trebly.

The other transistors seem to display a little more gain in this respect but when doing leads notes really get boosted.

I tried the Tonefrenzy site for a sample, but all I get is the fuzz face page. Do you have the link to the Rangemaster page?

[Doug_H]

http://www.tonefrenzy.com/effects/dallas_rangemaster.html

It's linked properly in the alphabetic section. They used to have a clip of chords with palm mute too. Don't know where that went.

Doug

[Khas Evets]

What kind of amp are you using?

[vanessa]

Nope, mine does not sustain like that. But I can't crank it that loud. I'm testing it on a Marshall Club and Country 4X10 open back combo.

[formerMember1]

I had the same situation.

For me, I was able to increase the treble "bite" without making it too bright, by messing with the biasing,..I don't mean by biasing it at 6.5Volts vs 7.0volts,..I mean by biasing it at 7.0volts, but manipulating those two bias reistors. 

What are they again,..62k and 3.9k?  i forget,..

anyways,..what i mean is(just pure hypothetical values here ), it could be biased at 7.0volts on collector with 68k and 6k biasing resistors and can also bias at 7.0volts on collector at say 59k and 2.8k or something,..know what i mean?  THe above both are still biased at 7.0volts but sound pretty different. 

I found out to get the best brightness and clipping, that it is best to get as close to the original biasing resistor values (from schematic) as possible,..

Try that.   

[vanessa]

The thought ran across me that this could be the issue. I tried working off the GEO 'how to' and I could not dial it in close to the original values. R.G. says that if you can't you have a leaky tansistor or the wrong gain. I checked this OC44 and I found it to be very low leakage with a gain of 108 hfe. I know that it's a little higher than 100 but he states that this is ok.

[vanessa]

I just re-biased it. It sounds the same. My new bias points are just a little off from the GEO points.

It sounds good with the OC44, but like I said earlier the treble boosted parts just don't jump out at you like the other transistors I tried...

[Plectrum]

I just re-biased it. It sounds the same. My new bias points are just a little off from the GEO points.

It sounds good with the OC44, but like I said earlier the treble boosted parts just don't jump out at you like the other transistors I tried...

Just a thaught... the RM can sound like a single stage fuzzface if the input cap allows enough low end through - and you do lose sparkle.
Maybe it's worth checking that nothing has happened to the input cap connections?

Grant.

[vanessa]

I just re-biased it. It sounds the same. My new bias points are just a little off from the GEO points.

It sounds good with the OC44, but like I said earlier the treble boosted parts just don't jump out at you like the other transistors I tried...

Just a thaught... the RM can sound like a single stage fuzzface if the input cap allows enough low end through - and you do lose sparkle.
Maybe it's worth checking that nothing has happened to the input cap connections?

Grant.

I would say that would be right on but what I'm describing seems to be the transistor as the other transistors seem to do the job. Also the Java Boost uses a .0068uf input cap over the original .005uf. I don't think that would make that much of a difference, but there are also two other caps that can be switched in and I'm not finding much of an issue difference with those.

I'm thinking it may be my transistor. I'll see if I can get another OC44, meantime I'm going to throw a 2N404 back in and give it a whirl.

[vanessa]

I almost forgot...

I have a couple OC76's!!! I bet they would sound good in this... Update tomorrow!

Night all!

[formerMember1]

That bigger input cap definitely makes a difference.  I tried it.  THe .005 is best to me.  Even though the other trannys sound more bright, that could mean that with a .005uf cap, they will be too bright, and the OC44 will be perfect.   

I tried most in my rangemaster and like the OC44 the best.  I tried the OC71 i think it was,(don't think it was the OC76), whichever one is PNP is the one i tried.  It sounded good, but second best to the OC44.  THe other one, was just different.  Very Very close though,  I think i posted about it in a rangemaster build report thread,...I think it sounded more bass and fuller.  The hfe were almost identical too.

I got pretty close to the original bias resistors with a 76hfe OC44. 

I thought moving the bias resistors was gonna fix/help it. 

good luck 

[Khas Evets]

Also the Java Boost uses a .0068uf input cap over the original .005uf. I don't think that would make that much of a difference, but there are also two other caps that can be switched in and I'm not finding much of an issue difference with those.

It's just a guess, but I think Plectrum may be onto something. What you're describing sounds like the input cap is being bypassed, maybe a bad solder joint? The input caps in the java sound dramatically different, and if you're not hearing the difference that could be your problem.

[vanessa]

Well I could not help myself...

I tried an OC76 (metal can) and an OC76 (black glass) both with very low leakage in the Java Boost clone. The can was @ hfe 103 and the black glass @ hfe 68. After bias both sounded almost the same, but I found both to sound better than the black glass OC44 I had in there. Both were smoother than the OC44 and had a little more volume (gain?) to them than the OC44 (the black glass with a little less than the can). Overall just a little nicer bite with a nice roll-off decay.
In the treble boost area the black glass (OC76) pulled away from the can (OC76). I could instantly hear the boost of the higher octave notes. Not a huge boost but a difference, much better like the 2N404's I had in earlier without the harshness.

Maybe these circuits need the lower gains to make them kick-in and work properly? I don't have an OC44 that has a lower gain, but I think I like the OC76 over the OC44 in the Java Boost anyway. The OC76 can was about the same hfe as the OC44 and they were very similar but like I said the OC76's just sound a little smoother and had a nicer decay.

The black glass OC76 gets to stay in this one for the time being anyway...

[d95err]

Nope, mine does not sustain like that. But I can't crank it that loud. I'm testing it on a Marshall Club and Country 4X10 open back combo.

The Tone Frenzy soundclip is useless, since there is no info on the amp. You need a clip with the amp and no effect and then with the effect on to get any sense of what teh effect is doing (that goes for all FX soundclips by the way). The Rangemaster into a clean amp should sound thin and fizzy. It's only with an overdriven amp it starts to sing. The sustain on the Tonefrenzy clip sounds like it is mainly guitar-amp feedback, not the effect itself.

[mudmen]

I almost forgot...

I have a couple OC76's!!! I bet they would sound good in this... Update tomorrow!

Do you have a reliable source of this transistors ?

[petemoore]

  RM...I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thinks the circuit, or whatever the circuit may be, is 'different, flawed, not right, almost like....etc.
  I'm completely convinced there IS no 1 rangemaster sound. Every one sounds different, each different one strongly influenced tone [if working 'right'] and also is strongly influnced in 'it's' tone by...waht's before and after it.
  If I plug my main RM into a Jfet>386 amp...it sounds like a booster...boosting what's input mostly, depending the coupling caps values.
  If I plug it into my 'big amp 50w, [that'd be at home where it's probably not distortion on it's own, it sounds like a 'treble booster'.
  If I plug the RM into the 5e3, the one that's already distorting a little or just about to distort, and crank the RM/amp volume, it's sounds like a completely different horse, distorting and acting more like a FF with super guitar volume cleanup from Fuzz to Treble Boost.
  That's the one RM, one of...I lost count...that has an NPN SB RM Transistor in it.   
  I have one with an OC44 [or was it 140]...anyway these transistor numbers are only a really small part of RM technology....IME...it was only just recently, after 5 or so years of RM Diddling and builds that I realized the Fuzz Actually Was not coming only frrom an RM but sounds great.
  certainly not a 'wire 'n go to perfection' [whatever 'perfection would be with this thing]... more like diddle arounda whole lot and hope you have something usable, then compare that to an RM...the 'other' ones...the ones that are real finicky about amps, but too 'polite' to say it, other than actin' funny on ones they don't 'think are right' for them....I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm typing 'to' a Rangemaster...the individuals have character...so I guess I am.
  So...I'd say a Rangemaster can sound good, bad, ugly...depending on speaker, amp, pickups, RM Transistor, playing style, volume level, temperature, moon phase etc. and there is no 'Typical Rangemaster Sound'.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I just had a look at a Keeley java boost schem that happened to be on my computer (??not sure where from) and, looking at the circuit, I'm damned if I could see how it could exceed gain of 1, the output appeared to be coming from a pot forming an emitter resistor!! Am I going crazier or what??

[d95err]

I just had a look at a Keeley java boost schem that happened to be on my computer (??not sure where from) and, looking at the circuit, I'm damned if I could see how it could exceed gain of 1, the output appeared to be coming from a pot forming an emitter resistor!! Am I going crazier or what??

AFAIK, some of the Java Boost schems floating around (including those from the Keeley website) are flawed (e.g. showing positive ground instead of negative, etc). The Torchy layout is supposedly correct.