Rangemaster with OC44 should it sound like this?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Thanks d95err! yeah, that Torchy schem looks OK. I can't see why changing the gain of the transistor would matter, FWIW. Also, an OC44 should have higher frequency response (up to around 1 MHz) as opposed to an OC71 or OC76 which are  IIRC strictly audio.

[Steben]

Somehow my RM broke down...
No wires disconected... No damage... odd...
Got to repair or rebuild... with the plexi on its way...

[Doug_H]

Another idea for a good transistor for a rangemaster:

http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=41172.msg297292#msg297292

There shouldn't be a significant difference between .005u and .0068u input caps. I use .0068u in mine. Bigger caps will make fuzzier sounds. Hfe ~100 should be fine.

There is no equipment info for the tonefrenzy clip yet I would bet it is an amp on the edge of breakup with the rangemaster pushing it over the top. Most rangemaster users set it up that way to "sing", unless they are looking for clean or "cleanish" treble boost. It doesn't matter to me what equip they used since it sounds so similar to my setup- and I *know* they weren't using the same amp I am!


Doug

[Doug_H]

AFAIK, some of the Java Boost schems floating around (including those from the Keeley website) are flawed (e.g. showing positive ground instead of negative, etc). The Torchy layout is supposedly correct.

Quite honestly, I don't understand all the interest in the Java Boost other than it is a "name" pedal. I'm sure it sounds fine and all. But ever since R.G. posted his Austin Treble Blaster article a few yrs ago DIY-ers (and boutiquers) have been building Rangemasters with variable input caps using switches and etc, positive gnd, negative gnd, npn, pnp, and all sorts of variations. It's not brain surgery. The addition of the tone control is interesting. The way I use mine I didn't find that kind of thing necessary but whatever floats your boat- that's DIY.

IMO if you really want to do something interesting with a Rangemaster, add a pot to control the bias. There are other nice sounds in it to be found other than just the magic (-)7V  setting.

EDIT: Also I would suggest to anyone interested in this sort of thing to give Gus's NPN Boost with a "range" control a try.
EDIT2: And yikes! I had the wiring description all screwed up here... Check this thread for details on how to implement the range control:

http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=41537.0

With a Si motorola 2n2222 transistor and the range control dialed towards the "thin" end you will get very very close to a rangemaster sound. You won't quite get the softness of the Ge xsistor but it is very good nonetheless. FWIW I think the emitter ckt range control is a much slicker way of controlling "thickness" than using different input caps- at least with the NPN boost. That control coupled with the variable Zin of the bootstrap ckt makes this a very flexible pedal capable of a lot of different sounds. I use it as my "thick" booster and use the rangemaster as my "thin" booster.


Doug

[freak scene]

my rangemaster got fried, it was my first build and i tried running it with an adapter (wrong polarity), it wasnt until after it stopped working that i realized my error... so now i need an oc41 and to flip all my electrolytics and etc...

D'OT

[vanessa]

Thanks d95err! yeah, that Torchy schem looks OK. I can't see why changing the gain of the transistor would matter, FWIW. Also, an OC44 should have higher frequency response (up to around 1 MHz) as opposed to an OC71 or OC76 which are  IIRC strictly audio.

I guess my OC44 is flawed. I had a feeling it might be. I'll have to get another.

Why did they use the OC76 in the Orange Treble and Bass Booster? It really sounds great in this Java Boost clone, no kidding!

[petemoore]

  There was some schematic around...BMTB or something like that, had some 'work' done to it, feedback from emitter to base...some extra parts through 'limited commonality' connections [IIRC The emitter and base bias resistor went to ground through a commom component or was tied to the base with a resistor, had a cap in the mix]...I wish I could show the 1Ge Q schematic that had 'extra' work going on in the lower middle to right had corner...
  Other than that I always thought it might be a good idea to fit a GE in a bootstrapped circuit A/la NPN Boost...but haven't 'cause...I don't know...[steep?].
  So then it's just biasing Ge's, then voicing in an RM circuit for me.
  It's almost like the transistor, and the circuit must be 'pitched' [like frequency pitch]...and there's some magical equation that produces amazing tone when a lively sounding transistor has just the right amount of bass and treble+ Plenty of mids at the base, so it distorts a little or more but doesn't freak out on too much bass, then adjusting carefully the output LP and HP Filter caps [OR making the the LP adjustable ie ~.1uf cap>~10k to ground so the highs don't kill ya].
  An RM testboard with everything adjustable...trimpots/sockets/etc. and lots of messing with...mostly I think it's getting a lively transistor biased sorta close to the RM Tech Specs, then voicing it. A 'great' RM Transistor pops into the boardsocket, requiring no further biasing, and won't get 'beat' in your opinion by a different RM Transistor.
  .0047uf ... The smallest input cap I use for anything is .0068uf, probably actually .01uf though...haven't checked lately.
  I've tried lots of NTE158's, a large handful of different types of Small Bear Ge transistors, Mesa Transistors, OC44, Oc 140...all but one of these failed to 'remain'...that'd turn out, [for me at least, and, your mileage Will Vary], to be an NPN Ge purchased from SB...but the OC RM transistor circuit I've boxed is cool in a little bit different way.

[vanessa]

Thanks d95err! yeah, that Torchy schem looks OK. I can't see why changing the gain of the transistor would matter, FWIW. Also, an OC44 should have higher frequency response (up to around 1 MHz) as opposed to an OC71 or OC76 which are  IIRC strictly audio.

I was noodling with it some more. Why does the black glass OC76 sound so much better in this (remember it is just a little different than a RM)?

I don't think I got a bad OC44. It does sound good. It just does not boost the higher treble notes like the b.g. OC76 I have. The OC76 also has a smoother distortion (maybe that's why Gilmour used his Orange Treble & Bass Booster on many a track in the Floyd's heyday?).

[Eirik]

This is an old post by analogmike:

HI,

We try to use HFE in the 70 to 80 range for the BEANO BOOSTS, as they are easily biased using the info in RG's article. Usually the stock resistor value will be perfect for this range. But just as important as gain and biasing is the selection of the brand and model of transistor used. We have dozens of models from the 60s to newer ones and some just don't sound good in the rangemaster circuit. The black ones we used were really good, lately we are using the NKT275's from our SUNFACE as some of those were in the Rangemaster range (!) in HFE. Those sound great for people who dont like as bright and harsh a tone.

Also try to choose a transistor with low noise, as this circuit can get quite noisy.

Have fun!!!

I wouldn't know if this is still his preferences. But at least it was a couple of years ago.


Eirik

[Plectrum]

Nope, mine does not sustain like that. But I can't crank it that loud. I'm testing it on a Marshall Club and Country 4X10 open back combo.

Ah, I've got the Club n Country 2x12... great amp. (Driven, it's a bit weird, but clean...)

The only thing I can think of is the "volume" pot. I read a thread wherein someone mentioned one could influence gain using a different value pot here, due to it's affect on biasing. Maybe your tranny needs a tweaked pot here?
My Glass OC44 (85Hfe) sounds pretty sparkly with the cap paralell-fader at "normal" setting.

Grant.

[formerMember1]

I added around 6k -7k to my 10k pot on my RM w/OC44.  BUt the hfe was 76, so in your case i don't know.

A carbon zinc battery, with the pedal biased at 7.0volts, definitely makes for a nicer tone than a power supply.  But the power supply gives a more consistent power, so the biasing doesn't change as much, with a battery, it obvisouly changes tone every few hours or so,...

With a carbon 9Volt the tone isn't as compressed as per a power supply.

[vanessa]

Ah, I've got the Club n Country 2x12... great amp. (Driven, it's a bit weird, but clean...)

Yeah, even with the 4x10's I would not say mine is clean, it's brighter than a Marshall with say a 4x12 closed back cab but still sounds on the dark side like a Marshall. They're a rare breed. I have read that SRV used to use a 4x10 in his early days but I have never seen a photo of him with one. I can say the only time I have ever seen one played by anyone (I really mean anyone) was a long time ago I was at a show on the Allman Brothers 20th Anniversary tour and I looked up and the only two amps on stage for guitars were two Marshall Club and Country 4x10 combos used by both Dicky Betts and the other by Warren Haynes. Pretty cool!

[Plectrum]

Ah, I've got the Club n Country 2x12... great amp. (Driven, it's a bit weird, but clean...)

Yeah, even with the 4x10's I would not say mine is clean, it's brighter than a Marshall with say a 4x12 closed back cab but still sounds on the dark side like a Marshall. They're a rare breed. I have read that SRV used to use a 4x10 in his early days but I have never seen a photo of him with one. I can say the only time I have ever seen one played by anyone (I really mean anyone) was a long time ago I was at a show on the Allman Brothers 20th Anniversary tour and I looked up and the only two amps on stage for guitars were two Marshall Club and Country 4x10 combos used by both Dicky Betts and the other by Warren Haynes. Pretty cool!

Very cool.
I saw pic of one of SRV's marshall 2x12 in an old "guitar player", it was in black and white so I didn't realise at first - a while later I had a closer look at the control section and saw it was the same as MY amp! LOL. *And* I'd been using a TS9.
I recorded a rock band a few weeks back, and set this up for the guitarist, who wanted a SRV'ish tone for one track... Plugged his strat in and nearly fainted. :-)
Also, Alex Lifeson used one on a couple of the Rush albums.

Grant.

[vanessa]

Very cool.
I saw pic of one of SRV's marshall 2x12 in an old "guitar player", it was in black and white so I didn't realise at first - a while later I had a closer look at the control section and saw it was the same as MY amp! LOL. *And* I'd been using a TS9.
I recorded a rock band a few weeks back, and set this up for the guitarist, who wanted a SRV'ish tone for one track... Plugged his strat in and nearly fainted. :-)
Also, Alex Lifeson used one on a couple of the Rush albums.

Grant.

It's cool to know some history behind an amp that's kind of rare. To add to that Allman Brothers show. Both amps looked totally out of place. The stage was huge and all you see are these two little Marshall C&C 4x10's.
Do you know what albums Lifeson used them?

[Plectrum]

It's cool to know some history behind an amp that's kind of rare. To add to that Allman Brothers show. Both amps looked totally out of place. The stage was huge and all you see are these two little Marshall C&C 4x10's.
Do you know what albums Lifeson used them?

It's hard to find concrete details, but I'm pretty sure of "moving pictures", possibly "Signal" and "Grace under pressure".
AFAIK He used a Distortion+ with it.
esp. Limelight has that slightly nasal tone thing going on... (the delay/reverb is the mountains near the studio apparently)

Grant.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

A carbon zinc battery, with the pedal biased at 7.0volts, definitely makes for a nicer tone than a power supply.  But the power supply gives a more consistent power, so the biasing doesn't change as much, with a battery, it obvisouly changes tone every few hours or so,...With a carbon 9Volt the tone isn't as compressed as per a power supply.

Well, you'll have to build the variable flat battery simulator (which i think is on geofex, but buggered if I can find it..)

[formerMember1]

sorry for highjacking, 

Paul,
I have  a voodoo Labs pedal power 2, it has a variable battery power from like 5volts to 9volts on two jacks.  Is that the same thing as R.G.'s?

It works good, but  a dying carbon battery is still better.  THe power supply does get the fuzz different, just like a dying battery, but then with the power supply the tone is bassier when lowering the voltage then on a dying carbon.

I think the best definition of a dying carbon battery is on Come on Let the good times roll on electric ladyland by Jimi Hendrix.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

formerMember1, the "flat battery simulator" has two controls, the first is for varying the voltage (this may be like the Voodoo Labs) and secondly, a pot (I *think* 1K, I know it is low) in series with the power output, to mimic the increase in internal resistance of the battery as it ages.
Note that most effects have a large electrolytic across the power rails to minimise the effect of increasign battery resistance, so that might be another mod (taking it out!) for anyone playing with power supply related mayhem.

[ildar]

It's hard to find concrete details, but I'm pretty sure of "moving pictures", possibly "Signal" and "Grace under pressure".
AFAIK He used a Distortion+ with it.
esp. Limelight has that slightly nasal tone thing going on... (the delay/reverb is the mountains near the studio apparently)

Grant.

By GUP he was using G/K gear. He may have used the combos in the studio for some of Signals, but for the tour he was back to using stacks.
And btw, the natural reverb from the mountains was used on Permanent Waves, and then mostly for vocals and some acoustic guitar tracks. The fx on Limelight were from an Eventide unit-don't know which one.

[formerMember1]

formerMember1, the "flat battery simulator" has two controls, the first is for varying the voltage (this may be like the Voodoo Labs) and secondly, a pot (I *think* 1K, I know it is low) in series with the power output, to mimic the increase in internal resistance of the battery as it ages.
Note that most effects have a large electrolytic across the power rails to minimise the effect of increasign battery resistance, so that might be another mod (taking it out!) for anyone playing with power supply related mayhem.

Oh i didn't know that.  R.G. did have me try adding  a resistor to the power supply(low resistor), but i didn't like it,  It was still different. Probably cuz the voltage stayed at 9.0volts. 

What kind of big electro, i have  a 100uf PF across the rails.


So R.G.'s battery simulator, will do everything the voodoo labs will do, but also let me dial in the voltage and "battery impedance" to a fuzzface or rangemaster?  WOw, i think i need to sell my voodoo and build that then. Cuz i have never been happy with power supplys compared to carbon batteries, but i do like a constant power, that i don't have to have the tone change.  I don't like messing with something like that though, i would hate to make a mistake and have a problem with all those volts and getting electricuted.  I wonder if i could modify my voodoo labs pedal power 2, on those 2 jacks that have the variable volts, and add a 1k pot on each jack?  THat would be great!!  I know you make pedals for a living(i visited your site, and like that theramin), would you consider doing this mod for some cash?  I will pay shipping both ways.   I think you are in austraila though.  I am in USA.  PM me if you are interested, tell me a price you think fits the work.



PS: isn't 1k a litte high though?  I thought around or under 100ohms would do it?  I guess no pots or trimmers come in lower than 1k though,..


sorry for highjacking this topic,