Why I switched my TS808 clone to TS9

[shredgd]

    This is just my two cents to tell my experience.
Long time ago I decided to build a tubescreamer. I had read a lot about people wanting to mod their TS9 to TS808, so I socketed the two resistors that make the difference in the output buffer, but I put the TS808 values first because of all that hype about it. I liked the pedal when I played it for the first time, so I didn't bother to try the TS9 values. Actually I think I gave them a try, but I didn't know what difference to look (hear) for in the sound, so I immediately put the TS808 values back, just because people raved about it.
    Then I forgot about this issue and continued to play the pedal as it was. I also was biased because I read there was probably no difference with such little change and that many people couldn't actually hear any difference or, if they did, tell what the diference was.
    Recently, I looked back at the schematic and reflected about what those two resistors are supposed to do. Now it was clear: as the TS808 has only 100ohm (instead of 470 in the TS9) between Q2 and the 10u output cap, it had to be a bit more open to high frequencies. The second different resistor really shouldn't affect the sound, as the high pass filter which it forms together with the 10u cap has a corner frequency below the audible range in both cases.
    So, as I founded myself always keeping the tone knob almost closed in the pedal to tame its brightness, I thought that the TS9 resistor value would at least help a bit. Indeed, now I can finally use the tone knob a little more and I'm much happier with this pedal, which suffered from excessive presence, especially the louder I played. Also, I now understand that people at Ibanez came out with these TS9 resistor values as a real improvement over the TS808.
    So, in my opinion, this is by no means a case of "They stopped making that nice product and came out with a new one which isn't as good" (I hear similar sentences about guitar gear very often...).

P.S.: I didn't do a search before writing, so sorry if you already read similar thoughts by someone else!

Giulio

[phaeton]

I'm not 100% sure on the release dates of the TS-808 or TS-9, but if I understand this correctly, tube amps have slowly gone from 'muddy' to 'bright' sounding over the years.  I.e. they have improved treble response (generally)(and also bass response, and everything else).  In the 'muddy' days, treble boosters like the Rangemaster and Screaming Bird were popular.

This might be what the hubub is all about between the 808 and the 9, and why ibanez 'toned down' the 9 (no puns!) for 'modern' (at the time) amplifiers.  Of course there are still people that will step over 9s to buy 808s just because it's an 808.  See the 'mojo' thread for more examples like this.  Some folks here will even argue that pulling the original JRC4558s out and replacing them with TL072 or TL082 is a vast improvement, because the TL0* opamps are (all around) a better design.

YMMV.

However, I think this all predates my birth and i'm just speculating (no facts to back anything up) so anyone can tell me to STFU at any time.  I've played clones of 808s, 9s, 10s and real 808s, 9s and 10s, 15s even reissues.  For my ears, I like the 10 the best, so go finger.

[b_rogers]

for what its worth i have an original ts-9 thats a friends and 2 ts-5's. both of the ts-5's sound better overall than the ts-9.  the ts-9 has one sweet spot, but the ts-5's sound better.

[GBlekas]

The whole mess seems to depend on the amp and guitar you are using.
Coming from a Strat/old Fender tube amp camp the Ts-808 was never bright to me.

Of course the Gibson/Marshall combo probably all TS pedals are to be avoided in favor of something else.

Just wondering if you are using a reissue Fender amp and also what is the year of your TS pedal?


regards,
George

www.PedalworX.com

[gulliver]

I had planned on doing the 808 mod to my TS-5 along with buying a bunch of chips to swap out. From what being said in this thread, I'll probably like the tone better if I just swapping out the chips without changing the resistors???

It sounds like the resistors have nothing to do with the chip change other than re-creating the 808 tone.

[shredgd]

GBlekas, I use a PRS Custom 24 with a Marshall JMP-1 preamp and a Marshall EL84 20+20 power amp, which actually are bright pieces of gear themself.

Sorry gulliver, I don't have any TS-5 schematic, so I can't tell you wether the chip and the resistors are the only changes they did or not.

It sounds like the resistors have nothing to do with the chip change other than re-creating the 808 tone.

If you meant "the resistor weren't changed to meet some kind of current requirement of the chip or whatever", yes.

[GBlekas]

The output resistors and op-amp changes the way the pedal sounds for sure.
Op-amp affects smoothness, sizzle etc in the over all sound.
The resistance is an impedence thing but simply put the 808 mod lessens the resistance load on the signal and lets more signal through.
More signal is a good thing when slamming a tube preamp.

Regardless, I have found older TS pedals moded sound better than new ones.
This could be similar to a break in time for a speaker. Like after a certain point the speaker's tone changes and sounds broken in and just plain old better than it did when new

The new TS-808 does sound pretty good and you wouldn't even need to change anything. Just a thought.

I think for a Marshall Pre and post I would think a Rat or other Fuzz/Distortion would be better suited than a TS mid hump signature.

Regards,
George


www.PedalworX.com