A Word About Programmers

The Tone God · February 23, 2006, 05:34:02 PM

As we start trying to get things warmed up around here I would like to say a few things about the various programmer options out there when it comes the microcontrollers particularlly the Atmel's AVR.

I make the recommendation of the Atmel STK500 for AVR. It is the top of the line development board from Atmel. As of this writing you can get one for $79US from Digikey. For some that will seem like alot of money but in the world of micros this is practically nothing for a top of the line board. Are there cheaper options ? Yes.

You may see programmers that cost a fraction of the STK500. Practically all these programmers make use of the In System Programing (ISP) interface that most AVRs have. Atmel has their own ISP programmer. As of this writing a new version has just been release called the AVRISP MkII which costs $34US from Digikey but you need to make an interface board for it. Most of these ISP programmers do work and may even suit your personal needs but here are a few things to be aware of with them.

- Only AVRs with ISP support will work with these programmer. Almost all AVRs support ISP but you do have to be aware of it when selecting a processor. The STK500 supports almost all DIP packaged processors ISP supported or not. Adaptors for the STK500 can be purchased to program the various other processor packages and lines.

- AVRs can be "locked" preventing further programming. If you lock your processor you will not be able to unlock it with the ISP programmer. The only way to unlock it is to use high voltage programming which the STK500 does support.

- To access certain features of the processor you will need to disable/enable various settings. Some of these settings can not be addressed/re-addressed with an ISP programmer. The STK500 can access these features.

- When testing you will probably be using a bread board thus you have to yank the processor out of the programmer and putting in the bread board. You will find yourself doing this for EVERY change you make in the software. Each time is a chance for you to bend or break a pin on the processor which could spell the end of the processor's usage. The STK500 is not just a programmer but a development board that allows for the testing of basic programs in the board without having to remove the processor from the board. It makes life easier.

- Some programmers are not supported natively by Atmel's development software (AVRStudio) and thus need their own software to perform the programing. More software can lead to more problems. Atmel releases new parts and patches on a regular basis. These patches are only for Atmel's hardware and software. You are at the mercy of the other developers for support.

There are few other things but those are some of the biggies I can think of right now. The choice is yours but I still stand by my recommendation of the STK500.

Andrew

troubledtom · February 23, 2006, 08:00:45 PM

that's what we're gonna do, andrew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
peace bro,
- tom

R.G. · February 23, 2006, 11:11:10 PM

The KitsRus USB programmer for PICs cost me $35, has a ZIF for all PICs, and supports ISP for the PICs if you put the one resistor and one diode that a PIC needs for ISP on your board.

bioroids · February 25, 2006, 01:34:10 PM

I'm getting the STK500!

I need to get a transformer for it too. Does it have to be well regulated or any cheap transformer with the right current and voltage is enough?

Thanks

Miguel

Peter Snowberg · February 25, 2006, 01:49:45 PM

The STK500 needs a regulated source of 10 to 15 volts to be happy.

A jumper to an unused hard disk power connector also works just fine.

bioroids · February 25, 2006, 03:48:12 PM

Quote from: Peter Snowberg on February 25, 2006, 01:49:45 PM
A jumper to an unused hard disk power connector also works just fine.

Cool! Now I can justify to keep my computer with the case open

Miguel

Dave_B · March 01, 2006, 06:31:22 PM

STK500 out of stock until April 7th at Digikey.

gaussmarkov · March 01, 2006, 06:50:45 PM

Quote from: bellyflop on March 01, 2006, 06:31:22 PM
STK500 out of stock until April 7th at Digikey.

whew! it said they had 47 in stock 2 days ago.

DavidS · March 01, 2006, 06:57:48 PM

Crap! I was going to order one of those this week!

Where's a good alternate source for US customers?

Peter Snowberg · March 01, 2006, 08:03:10 PM

Got to the contacts page at the Atmel site:

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/general/contact.asp

Select distributers, your country, your state (if in US), and press search.

Avnet has them in stock. Price unknown.

The Tone God · March 02, 2006, 12:54:11 AM

Wow that sucks. It must have happened recently. Maybe a school bought the stock up. Well its ok for now. We can get by for alittle while with just the simulator. As I am sorting my thoughts out about what I'm going to cover I'm starting to find myself needing to go into alittle more depth then I was originally hoping/planning to which I guess will be for the better for everyone learning. This will probably reduce the number of topics covered in a time period, but at covered at greater length and depth, so the need for the hardware will be slowed down a bit.

I am putting my foot down at teaching you folks how to defend yourselves against a man with a banana.

Andrew

Dave_B · March 02, 2006, 09:55:53 AM

For those who can't wait, you can always cobble together one of the cheap programmers available on the net. You probably already have the parts.

After looking at the way Amtel does things, I'm going to give them a try. I've never gotten comfortable with the bank switching on PIC's and the way you have to parse your interupts.

Now if only there was a cheap supplier that didn't have a minimum order.

DavidS · March 02, 2006, 05:31:09 PM

I just ordered one from AVNET, the price was $84, don't know the shipping just yet. They have another 67 in stock.

http://www.em.avnet.com/

R.G. · March 02, 2006, 06:10:48 PM

A DIY programmer that programs AVRs in high voltage parallel mode (that is, it can reset the fuses which ISPs don't) along with docos and the control program. It says it works with AVR studio as well: http://elm-chan.org/works/avrx/report_e.html

danngreen · March 04, 2006, 01:23:42 PM

Quote from: bioroids on February 25, 2006, 01:34:10 PM
I need to get a transformer for it too. Does it have to be well regulated or any cheap transformer with the right current and voltage is enough?

I've used an unregulated BOSS-compatible power supply for a couple years with no problems (2.1mm barrel plug, 9VDC, negative center) . I believe the STK500 also detects polarity automatically.

and yes, you can get a programmer for less, but in the end you may kick yourself for not spending the extra $30 to get a full development board (the STK500)! I recommend it as well!

troubledtom · March 05, 2006, 06:32:17 AM

thanx dann, 2 n's.
hey folks dann has helped me from 2000 on. i love him as a brother and he is the most progressive person i know.
he's smart, on the cutting edge, and young compared to me. listen to the man.
peace to all,
- tom

phaeton · March 07, 2006, 05:45:42 PM

Quote from: troubledtom on March 05, 2006, 06:32:17 AM
thanx dann, 2 n's.
hey folks dann has helped me from 2000 on. i love him as a brother and he is the most progressive person i know.
he's smart, on the cutting edge, and young compared to me. listen to the man.
peace to all,
- tom

perhaps you should dedicate your thousandth post to him?

danngreen · March 09, 2006, 07:54:54 PM

(tom, you're making me blush

)

one more thing about the programmers. for the first year i used a DIY one that went direct from the serial port to the AVR chip, and it worked---sometimes... and sometimes it would take a few tries before it burnt the chip right. using both uisp (under linux) and AVR Studio (under windows). I never figured out why, but when I switched to using the STK500, it worked every time. I imagine the difference is that in the STK500 and most other commercial programmers, there's a intermediate chip (such as the AT90S1200) between the serial port and the target chip. I'd be interested to hear other people's experience with this

here's a site that explains the direct serial port connections, in case anyone is interested:
http://www.zen9658.zen.co.uk/avr-doc/HOWTO-get-started.html

Dave_B · March 09, 2006, 11:10:28 PM

Quote from: danngreen on March 09, 2006, 07:54:54 PM
one more thing about the programmers. for the first year i used a DIY one that went direct from the serial port to the AVR chip, and it worked---sometimes... and sometimes it would take a few tries before it burnt the chip right. ... I never figured out why,

I've been having the exact same experience with my DIY PIC programmer. Let us use this post to build a bridge from the AVR devotees to the PIC devotees.

danngreen · March 10, 2006, 02:35:20 PM

Quote from: bellyflop on March 09, 2006, 11:10:28 PM
I've been having the exact same experience with my DIY PIC programmer. Let us use this post to build a bridge from the AVR devotees to the PIC devotees.

Great idea, so what do you (or any other experienced PIC'ers) recommend for a reliable programmer/software setup?

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A Word About Programmers