ears hurting?

[tennisdude]

When I play with my orange squeezer, especially with the guitar tone rolled down a bit, my ears start to hurt a little bit... its very strange, even at very low volumes. after like 10 minutes my ears feel like they've gone through world war III. without the OS on my ears are fine.

has anyone else experienced this? i'm feeling it has to do with the muffled low end being compressed or some wierd phenomenon.

[mac]

One thing I hate about valves is that I have to play loud to get good tones. In a small room my ears begin hurting at once.
BTW, a ss amp at the same volume that a valve amp does not hurt my ears that much.

mac

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

If you ears hurt, then your hearing is being damaged. Probably permanently. (Definitely, if you keep doing it).
You might have some ultrasonic feedback happening, it might just be 'too loud'.
At least, wear plugs.

[AL]

Several years ago the general consesus was that permanent damage occurred around 10 years of repeated bludgeoning of your ears. Although it is entirely possible that it could happen before and it's also very likely that more info has come out since then. I would think your ears are becoming susceptible to certain frequencies. This could be natural for you or could be a sign that your hearing is trying to tell you something.

The ringing you're most likely hearing after you turn off the equipment is a threshold shift. It's your ears attempting to get back to normal. Eventually, if you keep it up, they never will get back to where they once were. And worse than that, the ringing will NEVER go away.

So, I'll second what Paul said - WEAR EARPLUGS. I know they aren't cool in some circles but if you want to be doing this in 20 years time you'll need them.

Here's a quick read that I didn't get through entirely:

http://www.uic.edu/sph/glakes/harts/HARTS_library/musnoise.txt

AL

[petemoore]

  Tobacco'll do that too.
  Anything might make ears hear funny or even hurt.
  Could be a sympathetic vibration @ certain frequencies, broken scilia 'rattlitn' around in your head...you've heard the term 'screw loose'...about the same thing.
  For a couple weeks before the couple weeks I've quit smoking addictastix, I'd recieve LotS of pain with small volume, part of the 'focusing' processes I have [frequency 'sorting']...long story...I eliminated only Nicotine and a thousand other chemicals, those present in todays 'addictastix' [these SMOKES are like Dynamite]...anyway, not only did the left side of my head discontinue feeling like a steel plate resonating [or not, depending on stimulation level], the 'pain of tone' has disappeared completely.
  Not only that I can sing again the high notes, and any notes for much greater duration...vocal and hearing power have increased... ... ALOT.
  Pain of Hearing is EXTREMELY disconcerting to a guitar player...Smoke 'yer las' 'short' and don't buy no more...er at least that's what I did...I've been lickin' wounds and really healin' too. ['Reishi'...all you really need know is...'ingest it regularly']. Also called 'Ganoderma Lucidum'...God's herb etc.

[phaeton]

Just don't do what I did:

Went to a bar once to see a Metallica cover band called Battery.  Normally I go to these things and take earplugs with me, and everyone in the joint looks at me funny, but I don't care.  Well, this night, I forgot them, and this was arguably the loudest show I'd ever been to, including full blown concerts.  Two guitarists, and both of them had 2 Marshall full stacks (4x12x2) EACH.  It sounded like "SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" the whole time.  I didn't drive there, and my ride didn't want to leave.  It was -15F outside so I couldn't just stand around out there.  If only I had thought to go into the bathroom and stuff wet paper towels into my ears or something.

Well, my ears rang, buzzed and hurt for 2 days afterwards.  There are certain things that I used to be able to hear that I can't hear anymore, such as the high-pitched whistling that comes out of the back of a CRT.  On a quiet night I used to be able to walk down the street and tell which houses had t.v.s on in them, but not anymore.  Also, that "pressure" feeling you're talking about when something is loud, I don't feel that anymore, so I have to be careful.  It's pretty common that I turn my amp up to where I can hear it comfortably, but the gf leaves the room saying it's really really loud.

I suspect that I used to have above average hearing, but I don't know how much I've lost.  I debate whether I should go get a hearing test, but it might just confirm to me that i've wiped out the upper 3rd of my range or something, and I'm depressed about this as it is.

[runmikeyrun]

My ears are going to hurt even worse now: I just picked up an old ampeg 2x15 folded horn to compliment my 8x10.

Seriously i believed all that invincibility crap until i was about 24.  I couldn't hear to take blood pressures or listen to lung sounds at work.  Since then i started wearing ear plugs at every practice.  Now at 29 i think i've pretty much arrested the damage as i don't go to many concerts (and i take earplugs for all the crappy openers) and we don't play many shows (i don't wear plugs then either).  I can't understand what my wife or other people are saying when i'm in the next room or if there's any sort of background noise.  And i'm only 29!  I hope they catch up with those cochlear implants by the time i'm 50, i'm gonna need em!

So, yes, earplugs suck.  They cut all the highs.  Well i use some by etymotic research www.etymotic.com  the high fidelity ones.  They are supposed to not cut as many highs out.  They are better than foam plugs but still muffle things some.  $20 buys you a pair.  Trust me- it don't sound as good when you practice but at least you can hear later on.  Plus it's easy to get to sleep when you get home without that annoying ringing in your ears!

[shredgd]

As you can read at the bottom of every message I post, I'm quite a fan of earplugs!

It is true, earplugs cut highs more than other frequencies, but that is also the good thing, because highs are the most harmful frequencies (even though bass can be more "mechanically" dangerous for the high air pressure).
Also, I get the following advantages by wearing earplugs:

- They help me to distinguish the instruments in the band better, by eliminating the "mess" of frequencies you get at high volumes
- The above is vital when playing live in a big hall where the long reverb does a mess: I don't know why, but earplugs take all that ugly reverb away, so you can hear what you and the other instruments play way better
- I like higher volume as every guitar player, but when you practice with a drummer and other instruments (especially horns...) the volume reaches levels above what I consider pleasant, that's why I'm happy to wear earplugs at rehearsals.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

There's a whole world of earplugs, varying from 20c to $$$ custom moulded. Plenty are optimised to give  a flat freq response (OK, not the 20c ones).
As for cochlear implants.. a friend happens to be one of the top world experts on these. They'll save you from being run over by a fire truck & help you understand what people are saying, but believe me you won't be able to distinguish between op amps in a tubescreamer. Or a tubescreamer and anything else, for that matter.

[Peter Snowberg]

Click here:

http://www.hearnet.com/

I'm really tired of my ears ringing for the last 10 years straight.

Protect your hearing. You will NEVER get it back. 

.

[petemoore]

  OK..call me picky, sensative...whatever...
  It's the TONE, or certain aspects of it that 'tear ear tissue'...IMOVNSHO.
  I can hear just fine at incredible volume levels, levels which can give 'full body massage' and move any loose clothing a 'good span'...no ear plugs, no ear pain, not even the slightest bit of discomfort...actually just amazing impression of how EXCELLENT The 10' Tall Gauss 4 way Driver System in all Hardwood Cabinets...
  The point I'm making is that it isn't really 'volume' alone that causes hearing fatigue, nope studies have proven that high frequencies can wear you out [highway counsel recommends not having window open next to your ear for best stamina].
  I'm talking about an example of what's possible soundwise as produced by a contractor who supplied 'sound' there at a Club called 'the Limit'... he gave me personal demonstrations / explanations / exhibitions of what the system could do, ie shake your pants off if they're not buckled...without damaging your hearing...really quite amazing...the difference is truly fantastic, it could 'untie your shoes' if you weren't looking.
  With a system like that, it is simultaneously possible to:
>  Reach truly SuperFantastic Volume Levels
>  Feel no ear discomfort
>  Hear every nuance of the musical content
>  Have Bass Response that shakes you, literally, influencing circulation etc., excellent therapy IMO, it is fun to observe how it 'smiled' those who got in front of it.
  the 'contrast' to this world class sound system was explained by complaints and hurting ears at another club [I'll leave un-named] Who had a large batch of blown woofers replaced @ bottom price, 'Herald' drivers IIRC, this system had a tracer lighted, 8' high 15' wide walk in sub woofer system 'room' [two HUGE woofershorns facing into dancefloor, one per side, 8x15'' drivers ea.], which could sound 'intense', horrid, a little better when backed off,  according to the DJ there, Jimmy gave us a full 'various settings' demonstration also.

[phaeton]

i want to experience this "full body massage"

The things i've noticed though about lower frequencies, is that back in the days when I used to play in bands, I'd wear earplugs.  Everyone balked at me for awhile, but I eventually convinced them to try em out.  Which was great for awhile, but they all started turning up.  It got to where we played so loud that the bass was actually loud enough to hurt.  I don't mean just the ears, it rattles your entire skull in a few spots of a few songs.  It was almost immediately nauseating.

...and this might be going off target here... but i must have holes in my head that resonate empathetically with whatever is the most common subwoofer frequencies.  There's a candy factory down the road from where I live, probably about half a block or so.  Every night at 10pm someone shows up to pick up their husband/wife/friend/whatever, and they're often playing some rap/hiphop stuff through a stereo system that probably tripled the value of their car.

I don't hear the bass from half a block away, I feel it.  I really can't describe the sensation, except to maybe say it feels like my head is being inflated and deflated.  It turns my stomach and messes up my balance.  Covering my ears doesn't do anything, yet the gf is completely unaffected by it.  Usually around 9:45 every night I have to lay down on the floor for the 20 minutes until they finally leave.  And by the length of those bass frequencies, the person sitting in their car jamming out probably doesn't even hear the bass at all (they're too close).

[RDV]

Huh?

RDV

[mac]

This is the advice of a 40ys man that lost 20% of his left ear when he was a small kid  :icon_cry
He also has an EL84 incrustated in his right year so he has no sense of equilibrium as a side effect. That's why he has changed his surfboard for a perfboard.

Use earplgus.
Do not play loud or hear music at max in small rooms.
Avoid headphones.
Cover the walls of the room where you play with heavy curtains, carpets or anything that can absorb the sound waves. Cover the floor and the ceiling also. Reflexions in small bedrooms are dangerous. Have you ever notice how different sounds an empty room than a furnished one?
Consult experienced people. They can teach you some tricks like where to place your 100w beast and where you and your bandmates should stand.

mac

[phaeton]

My fave amp is switchable between 5W and 15W now.  No need to play stupidloud anymore.  I'll probably never be able to hack it in a band again, so unfortunately I'll have little to worry about in that regard.

[Xlrator]

After going to so many rock concerts and club shows years ago I can feel some damage/loss. Sometimes it drives me crazy when it just goes out and starts ringing for no reason. I doesn't help any when I forget to put in earplugs or wear the muffs at work around the extremely loud machinery. But I'm getting better at that.

I always called that flat, muted, underwater sensation a "sonic hangover". Some nites I was pretty wasted!!

[PenPen]

I haven't been to as many shows lately as I used to. I also used to be in a band. I am perfectly familiar with ringing ears (never hurt though). However, I've noticed some things recently. One, playing next to an amp doesn't bother me as much as it used to. Two, my hearing has improved since when I was a kid. I can hear the tiniest things like my kids breathing while they sleep, wheras my wife cannot. BUT, I can turn up my practice amp up and play without it really bothering me. I saw a show last night. When I opened the door to walk in, the sound almost knocked me over. The venue had impressive acoustics, and the band was really frigging loud with a lot of high freq content. I did venture up near the stage to check out their amps, but it was a bit uncomfortable to stand there for long, so I wandered around the bar until I found a spot that wasn't uncomfortable. I stayed their the whole night and honestly my ears are just fine today. Thats the real key when I go to shows, walk around until you find that one acoustic spot where the painful freq cancel out and it doesn't hurt to be there. Then you can sit and enjoy the band without suffering the next day. On the other hand, I've been to some shows where there was no safe place to stand, and the highs and lows made me feel ill. The key in those situations is to get as many bodies between you, the stage, and a wall. Walls become "sound sources" from the reverb, and I've found that standing near the middle of the club tends to result is the echo's cancelling out some of the bad frequencies, the warm bodies doing their part to absorb some too. It sounds mean to use other people to take the damage you want to avoid, but if they cared much about it they would be doing the same thing as I. I just take advantage of their apathy. Invest in some earplugs, but if you forget them try to move around to find a 'safer' spot in the venue. Nothing will be 100% safe but there are acoustic spots in the room usually that will make the experience less damaging.

Now that I read that back, it sounds hokey to say. Maybe I'm imagining the effect. All I know is I listen to what my body is telling me, and it tells me when I walk into certain spots in a club it doesn't hurt as bad, so I stay there. I just assume its due to the acoustics. I don't know for sure.

[tennisdude]

thanks for all the replies guys. i've actually gotten to the point where i cannot use the OS anymore... my ears just kill, its awful.

However, in all other aspects of life, my ears are fine. I rarely use headphones, i rarely play loudly, and i dont jam often enough with my friends to do damage and when i do i dont really play that loudly. I'm only 16, have only been to a few concerts before, I don't get spontaneous ringing at all.

I think i may invest in a quality pair of earplugs anyway.

It's really strrange--- loud music, loud guitar, loud anything doesn't bother me, its just his damn pedal 

John

[squidsquad]

Yep...them low frquency waves can re-enforce or cancel...a few feet can make a big difference.

For the man w/the painfull pedal...I'd try tweaking a cap or two....to filter high end out.
It must be a certain frequency is  causing your pain...perhaps a little change in the pedal would fix things.

Heavy damage here...can only hear the LOUD birdies...in one ear....because....
beside many years of being too loud & un-protected....
Caught a cold...blew the nose too hard...stuff went up behind the ear...Eustacian Tube swelled shut.
Awoke w/a PAINFULL earache...same as a child. 
And before a doc could look & fix...my eardum exploded.
Took a LONG time to heal. 
For a while...the injured ear heard things one fret lower in pitch. 
My brain heard music like thru a ring modulater. 
Thought my career was over. 
It works now...but all high end is gone.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

i want to experience this "full body massage"
turns my stomach and messes up my balance.  Covering my ears doesn't do anything, yet the gf is completely unaffected by it.  Usually around 9:45 every night I have to lay down on the floor for the 20 minutes until they finally leave. 

You might get some relief by wearing "noise cancelling" headphones. Not sure how far down the noise cancelling goes (they work by using a tiny mic inside your ear to pick up the outside sound, then invert it, and generate a signal to cancel the original audio, further inside your ear). They work best at low frequencies, so probably worth a shot.