PCB vs. Perfboard

[Guitar Toad]

PCB's add a little cost to the build but make the build a little easier. Perfboard is a more from scatch warm-fuzzy building method and saves a little money.

Which do you prefer to build with and why?

[Melanhead]

PCB's add a little cost to the build but make the build a little easier. Perfboard is a more from scatch warm-fuzzy building method and saves a little money.

Which do you prefer to build with and why?

I've been using vero simply because it's easy ... I don't generally have the time to make a PCB and haven't made one in 20 years! ... I'd like to try it later but really don't feel the need at the moment ... I think if I was making many to sell I'd definitle go PCB as there's less room for error.

[Guitar Toad]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't totally clear...I was thinking about the prefab PCB's. Making PCB's seem to be a lot of work that I don't really want to get into.

Please, what is the difference between Vero and perf? Thank you.

[Melanhead]

Ooopppss sorry, misunderstood.

Vero is a strip board that you cut traces rather than add jumpers:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/index2.html

Click on the 3pdt link and scroll down and you'll see what they look like....

Most of the layouts in the gallery are for vero ... makes things easier.

[Herr Masel]

I used to dislike the idea of PCBs (though I was interested in learning how to make one) but once you start building things more advnaced than a fuzzface perfboard can become really annoying, when it comes to troubleshooting a section, or even just replacing a single capacitor could mean that you have to remove leads and wires from five other components before you can go on. Having said that, I still don't have money for the pcb materials, but I hope that by next week I will get them. All sorts of bad times have slowed my learning/building lately and sometimes I feel that having to deal with the perfboard can be too much as well.

Edit: I've never tried the veroboard either, I think it's high time I did.

[ezanker]

Although I have absolutely nothing against buying prefab PCBs, I have only used perf so far.  I usually play around on a breadboard until I find a circuit I want to make permanent, so I don't really know ahead of time which PCBs to buy.  Also, as I only make one offs for myself, I don't feel the need to make my own PCBs.

[Guitar Toad]

Vero is a strip board that you cut traces rather than add jumpers:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/index2.html
Click on the 3pdt link and scroll down and you'll see what they look like....
Most of the layouts in the gallery are for vero ... makes things easier.

So, Vero has the whole face covered with copper and you just scrape away the unwanted copper to make your traces. Use an exacto knife to remove the copper or would you use a Dremel tool for that? That looks really cool. I may need to give Vero a try. That would be fairly easy!

Looks great! Thank you.

[Mihkel]

Not exactly, vero has lines of copper, not the full side covered with it.
You can find many vero layouts in the LAYOUTS GALLERY.

[Melanhead]

Ooopppss sorry, misunderstood.

Vero is a strip board that you cut traces rather than add jumpers:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/index2.html

Click on the 3pdt link and scroll down and you'll see what they look like....

Most of the layouts in the gallery are for vero ... makes things easier.

So, Vero has the whole face covered with copper and you just scrape away the unwanted copper to make your traces. Use an exacto knife to remove the copper or would you use a Dremel tool for that? That looks really cool. I may need to give Vero a try. That would be fairly easy.

Thank you.

Copper strips, yes. I use a drill bit to break the traces ... just with my hand and a quick turn ...

Vero is easy and there's tons of builds in the gallery for it, the only drag is it's harder to find then perf. I can't find it anywhere other than through Aron.

[pi22seven]

I love PCBs, but I don't have the skillz to make them. So I've been purchasing them from the usual places.

I've been perfing but I don't like how many things can go wrong because of the lack of my iron experience. You also have to think on your feet to change your layout when a part's just a little bigger than you thought.

As soon as I find a local supply of vero I'll be in heaven.

[Peter Snowberg]

I get PCBs made professionally. I have not etched my own boards for many years. The primary reasons include:

- 2 sides to route signals
- plated thru-holes
- NO NEED TO DRILL HOLES!!!  
- ground planes
- solder finish lasts forever
- solder masks add to longevity and make it look nice
- small feature sizes
- easy reflow soldering of SMD
- no chemical mess
- no transfer issues
- no toxic waste
- board houses recycle their etched copper
- once you get one that works, you can get production quantities easily

[Guitar Toad]

I get PCBs made professionally. I have not etched my own boards for many years. The primary reasons include:

Do you have order PCB's by the 100's? How much do you end up paying per PCB if I may ask? I'd love to get some PCB's made after I develop my own circuit. Who do you recommend?

[Peter Snowberg]

There are lots of places that do prototype runs fairly cheap.

I'm usually looking at making a few of anything and I've used http://www.expresspcb/ quite a number of times with great results. Their protoboard service is great and they have free layout software available on their site. $51 for three 2.5 x 3.8 double sided boards. That comes out to $66 in California including shipping and tax. The downside is that your layout is done in their proprietary software.

If you use standard layout packages you might want to look at http://www.olimex.com/pcb/ .

Type prototype pcb info google and you'll get plenty.

[Mark Hammer]

Board type will almost always depend on the circuit itself.  For circuits of sufficient complexity, there is a tremendous time savings to use an existing PCB layout.  Especially with how cheap and easy it is to use toner transfer these days.

For circuits of sufficient simplicity, there are plenty of times where I say "Screw it, just perf the darn thing!" and the time it takes to perf is no longer than the time to produce a viable PCB.

Occasionally you run into situations where the circuit has a bit of complexity to it, so you're at a choice point, but thechassi you've committed to demands a certain physical size or orientation to theboard that available posted layouts do not provide.  Here, you may choose to go with perf or vero, simply because it fits, and the risk of making errors is small.

As for vero vs perf, personally I have tons of the latter on hand and very little of the former, so I tend to be perf all the way for that reason.  What vero buys you is a nice sturdy trace already on the board so you don't have to run bent leads this way and that, plus a firm anchor to the board so that you don't risk lead fracture by components being rocked back and forth.  That's also an advantage of pad-per-hole too.  What vero costs you is that it slightly restricts where you situate components so that boards are sometimes bigger than they need to be.  On the other hand, if the circuit was that complex you probably wouldn't be vero-ing it, right?

I like perf, not just because I have it, but because I can point/orient components any way I want.  I find that handy when trying to get a circuit into an awkward space.  There are also circumstances where adding a post-build mod on is eaeier to do than with vero.

Pad per hole can have many of the virtues of both vero and perf - sturdiness plus layout flexibility.  Those little pad-per-hole boards Small Bear sells are really sweet and well-made.

[petemoore]

  I've perfed everything including EZ Vibes....note first sounds great when it wants to...ie not really figured out...and forgotten mostly.
  Anything with 38+ components or any greater degree of 'convolution to it I try to get a premade PCB..like the SSPHaser and RossComp.
  I like perf cause its 'linear', haven't messed with veroboard at all, I have plenty of trouble just trying to do all the back 'n froth/Up 'n Downing that the circuits invariably tend to convolute into when 'bent to Vero layout...I druther much to read through a schematic or Perf layout, debugging a vero just looks twisted from here, disanced as I am from actually trying it.

[phaeton]

I love PCBs, but I don't have the skillz to make them. So I've been purchasing them from the usual places.

Premade, or no?  And if I may ask, what are these 'usual places'?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I would definitely say ready made PCB, for beginners. Much easier to troubleshoot!

As for perf (or pad per hole) vs stripboard... here is a controversial opinion: the higher a person's IQ, the likelier they are to use perf. (NOTE: I use stripboard.) I think the reason is, that with perf you have a lot more freedom of placing stuff & cramming thingsup, meaning you have to be able to remember where everything is, how the wires & blobbed traces run. Debugging stuff built with perf?? fuggedabout it!

(note I'm referring to circuits with more than one chip!)

[RaceDriver205]

I say never use perf/vero, PCBs are at least 10 times faster to make! Vero takes forever!
I would recommend everyone to get into PCB making - providing you have access to a laser printer.
Method:

• 45mins print, etch n drill (I use mini tubular hand-held drill)
• 30mins solder in parts
• 3 hours playing

[/list]
The quicker you can make them the quicker you can start playing!

[hank reynolds 3rd]

I use perf for quick stuff (2 or 3 IC's) but prefer PCB, as I feel its more robust,and I find tracing/drawing a PCB quite therapeutic !!(except for the odd debug ,then it 'wall' therapy !!!).With perf I try to keep one strip for ground/V+ wherever possible,but the pain in the arse is usually little solder bridges , plus the stuff I got from Craplins was a bit shit,and seemed to make a few builds (distortions) whislte and play up  

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

Perf is much faster to work with. You can sit down and make a circuit in a few hours, or get out the glossy paper and make a hell of a mess  

Most recent perf project is the LXH2 Marshall Simulator. No cab sim yet, but maybe a later addition (I just don't see it being useful, as this is going into an amp's FX loop). It was actually fairly easy, ESPECIALLY if the user is wise enough to sharpie some important points (like +Vdc, -Vdc, Ground, Input, etc...). Rails across the board for common connections are a good idea, too, and i mounted the pots on the board for the ultimate in neat construction.

stripboard can make for the world's fastest builds. 5 pedals, 5 days last summer. That was nice.

I won't turn down a PCB, i just hate making them. I get iffy results, and it is brutally slow. At least with perf, i see results as they happen.