Anything "heavier" than a RAT?

[jrc4558]

Is there a known DIY project of a distortion that will be neavier than the RAT distortion? I'm trying to make a stratocaster to sound like an active EMG pickup equipped guitar going through a triple rectifier.
Advices appreciated.

[Processaurus]

I feel your pain.  I had a hard time getting a passably heavy sound from my strat before it got a mini humbucker for the bridge position.  That seemed to do something I couldn't do by tweaking pedals and amps.  A sort of alternative thats easy is to switch the middle pickups tone pot to the bridge pickup, rolling off some highs can make high gain distorted sounds less jangly.  Another alternative is to wire your guitar so you can put the middle pickup in series with the bridge pickup, essentially making a wide humbucker that is louder and darker sounding than each single coil.

Did you see the Dr. Boogey project? its a sim of a mesa pre-amp.

Also, you can change the tonestack in your rat to a Big Muff type, that would make it sound beefier.  Jack Orman has a project in his muff/rat book that does that.

[Mark Hammer]

I don't know what you mean by "heavier".  Does this imply more bass, more fuzz, more volume, more dynamics?  Not clear.  If you were a complete newbie, I'd simply suggest a booster in front or simply two clippers in a row, but you're not THAT new at the game so I'm assuming you mean something else.  What is it?

[jonathan perez]

minibucker is a better option.

[tcobretti]

I'm trying to make a stratocaster to sound like an active EMG pickup equipped guitar going through a triple rectifier.

Good luck.  However, I will say that (to my ears) as the amount of gain increases the type of guitar becomes less important.  If you want a more Mesa like sound, I might build a Uno from runoffgroove and run a booster before it to increase the gain.  You could also rewire your strat to run it's pickups in series instead of parallel which will give you more humbucker like sounds in the 2 and 4 positions.

[jrc4558]

Mark - I would like it to sound something like a maximum gain setting of a Sans Amp without that many ICs. I have a behringer "copy". Its noisy as hell, but does a passable tight "palm-muted" distortion. I considered rehousing, but the potentiometers are too fragile and I haven't found a suitable replacement. I don't know how to describe it better. I like the dynamics of the Sans Amp, its EQ is pretty flexible too. However, the cirquit is massive, power consumption is high and, most importantly, I already have "mild" overdrives. I need a definite pedal with high gain and distortion capability. Flexible EQ will be an asset, but not necessary.

Processaurus & tcobretti - Yes, I had a mini-humbucker in the bridge position. Although satisfying in distortion application, I dont like it's clean sound. That's why I ceep a single coil stacked noiseless DiMarzio there.

So far I've tried BSIAB II, RAT, modified XXL, and a self-cooked single stage TL071 driven past its limits (quasi-Stupid Box).

open for suggestions.

[pyrop]

Hi there
Check this thread out!
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=38185.msg270639
Sounds like the blackfire may be the go.

pyrop

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

also...

you might use a compressor in front of whatever heavy distortion you choose. that will help you get a realistic palm mute, as the signal will have the sustain and (well, closer to it anyway) envelope of a humbucker.

[WGTP]

2 Rats? 

Seriously, a midrange notch filter has a tendency to emphasis the bass and treble making it sound more distorted and make Rats, Vulcans, BMPs, etc. sound "Heavy-er" 

checkout Marks RoseyRay.

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/WGTP/BassBoostNotch?full=1

[Mark Hammer]

...or a Superfuzz.

Actually, a second lighter-clipping stage (LEDs anyone?) between the FET output buffer of the Rat and the final output volume, with a notch filter jammed between the second stage and volume, might be really nice.  The proposed second stage could be any op-amp, set for a non-inverting gain of maybe 40-50 or so.   Remember, the input signal (coming from the FET) will be hot enough that you won't need all that much gain to make even LEDs clip.

The combination of lowpass filter and notch should be able to get you a seriously authoritative grunt.  A 50k or 100k variable resistor from the ground-cap in the notch filter to ground will give varying notch depth for more tonal flexibility.  That's actually a pretty powerful one-two punch.  From serious bottom plus sizzle when the Filter control is fully open and the notch depth is maxed to  warmer tones when the notch depth is reduced and the Filter is rolled back.

Setting the second stage for additional clipping and modest gain will allow you to set the first stage (the Rat portion) for something that has some edge, and add more dirt from the second stage when you dig in.  Using LEDs for clipping will make sure that extra dirt doesn't come in until you dig in hard.  It also assures that the passive loss from the notch/scoop won't take too much away from the overall output of the device.

[petemoore]

   Rats...
 Probably wont get so sounding like a DR or TR.
 All above are good suggestions...
 I'd start with a booster, actually trying a 20$ 7band EQ might be of some service...frequency specific boost allows alot of tonal variation to 'whatever else' you're having.
 And it depends on what it depends on...everything...between the speaker and pickup[s.
 That booster before a clipping unit will 'heavier-ize', add noise, etc.
 Here's one of my favorite 9v 'heavies'...a Minibooster into a Dist+, voicing cap values vary from shown values...and the DIST+ has a 'warp control'...instead of the cap across the diodes...the cap is on a 10K, L pot...see AMZ Lab Notebook.
 There are so many variations and ways to clip/voice a signal, such as a FF with Minibooster after...you just about have to try something, revoice it, add to it, revoice again, go to some 'other' extreme...messing around for a week or month [or hit it right off the bat]..to 'find' the exact or close thing to what you're seeking.
 I went ahead and typed about the tweex, ITCase you're asking if a Distortion device can 'get' or get close to a Triple Rectifier...and there are some 'depends on' parts of the equation that are unknown...what every other part of the signal chain 'is' or could be is part of the overall equations to 'that' sound.

[bancika]

I was trying to do that with my squier with no luck. You'll just get hum. Getting new pickup shouldn't be that complicated. Take a look at DiMarzio Fast Track or new Tone Zone single sized pickup. You wouldn't need to change anything on guitar except for pickup and you can get as heavy as you wish.

[RDV]

The Danelectro Fab Metal will do right out of the box better than anything we've got here.

YMMV

RDV

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

Probably worth it to try to modify the RAT circuit for more gain.

Fp

[KORGULL]

Try the MOSFET Obsidian. I finally finished mine and love it. Might be the best (Metal sounding) distortion pedal I ever used.

[bwanasonic]

I'd echo the advice to try two distortion pedals in series. I use an EQ in the loop of my amp for scooping mids, and run a RAT II into another OD (usually a Nobels ODR1). I can only get so close, as I use an open back 2X12. If you really want the *thump* for palm mute styles, you need a closed backed 4X12. If I used tones like this more often, I'd keep my Sans Amp GT2 on my board.

Kerry M

[jrc4558]

Try the MOSFET Obsidian. I finally finished mine and love it. Might be the best (Metal sounding) distortion pedal I ever used.

KORGULL? Was this circuit noisy? What kind of a guitar are you using?

[jrc4558]

I too am using an open back 212. I guess it deduces from tightness.
But then again, I am not a metal-head, but rather a sound accuratist. And I have to do with an open back amplifier... 

[vanhansen]

Are we forgetting about Dr. Boogie?   Do a search for "Dr. Boogie" and you'll find all sorts of stuff on it.

[Processaurus]

...or a Superfuzz.

Actually, a second lighter-clipping stage (LEDs anyone?) between the FET output buffer of the Rat and the final output volume, with a notch filter jammed between the second stage and volume, might be really nice.  The proposed second stage could be any op-amp, set for a non-inverting gain of maybe 40-50 or so.   Remember, the input signal (coming from the FET) will be hot enough that you won't need all that much gain to make even LEDs clip.

The combination of lowpass filter and notch should be able to get you a seriously authoritative grunt.  A 50k or 100k variable resistor from the ground-cap in the notch filter to ground will give varying notch depth for more tonal flexibility.  That's actually a pretty powerful one-two punch.  From serious bottom plus sizzle when the Filter control is fully open and the notch depth is maxed to  warmer tones when the notch depth is reduced and the Filter is rolled back.

Setting the second stage for additional clipping and modest gain will allow you to set the first stage (the Rat portion) for something that has some edge, and add more dirt from the second stage when you dig in.  Using LEDs for clipping will make sure that extra dirt doesn't come in until you dig in hard.  It also assures that the passive loss from the notch/scoop won't take too much away from the overall output of the device.

Very cool, it would be kind of like a regular rat into a turbo rat with a happy face EQ after it.  I really like the idea of having the Rat LP filter before the second clipping stage, for different nuances in what gets clipped by the next stage. 

I've been thinking about how to heavify the rat (like a rat that can drag little dogs off ) lately, too, mostly from a desire to use it with bass.  I've gotten some good heavy sounds with a mixer and two parallel distortion pedals, having one (like the Rat or fab metal) do the high end crunch, and the other with less gain doing the low end (like a big muff or Sansamp with all the highs rolled off).  I'm wondering if your idea would also work well in a parallel configuration, with your LED clipper with mid notch providing the low end and the stock Rat providing the mids and high end.  Maybe use a dual opamp for the LED clipper and use the second half as an inverting summing amplifier to mix the two clipping stages.  The big box rat has so much room in it, its begging for more knobs...