proper ring modulator

[turing]

any recommendations for some ring modulator circuits? i see that the ggg maestro is recommended, as is the anderton, but wondered what else was out there. what i'm after is something quite well featured in terms of controls, and that can take a carrier signal from an external lfo, or maybe that as well as an internal source.
nice one

[brett]

Hi.
There have been many, many discussions in the forum about ring modulators.  Use the search facility above to see what's already been discussed, then ask some more questions.  It's and interesting (and frustrating) topic area.
cheers

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

The following knowledge cost me many tears, but here it is for free:
AD633 with regulated +-15v rails. The data sheet is your friend.

And, if you don't want bleed thru of carrier during silences..... you better not have any hum or hiss on the input. Yes, some peopel use a noise gate.. but that would be cheating.

[markusw]

On my Ring Stinger clone you really have to crank up volume to hear the carrier. It's definitely not an issue.
That additional trim pot on the xfmr board works really nice.
Just my 2 c. on xfmr based ring mods 

Markus

[RaceDriver205]

The ggg maestro RM is a good one, it has "proper" ring modulator charateristics, ie. its not just a 'balanced' modulator like simple ring mods. But if you want the real deal, with bells and whistles galore, the String Ringer is what you want (it even has the 'old school' real diode-ring and transformer circuit).

[chunks717]

I built the "sowa" ad633, and added an oscilator, it works, but I dont know the first thing about hushing the carrier.
how do those bias trimmers work?  (one on each signal input into 633) also, (not to hijack) what characteristics
of a xformer make them suitable for the diode ring deal?  I really like my old school EH freq. analyzer......
cannot find a datasheet for the 533...........I am hoping to adapt the circuit to work with 633, as the 533 seems
Impossibly oop........the F.A. 633 version is tons more complicated......maybe thats what it takes.............

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

On my Ring Stinger clone you really have to crank up volume to hear the carrier. It's definitely not an issue.

True....... but, I didn't want to hear the carrier, even cranked

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I built the "sowa" ad633, and added an oscilator, it works, but I dont know the first thing about hushing the carrier.
how do those bias trimmers work?  (one on each signal input into 633)

Check the AD633 data sheet.
But, in practice, the idea is that you turn the unit on, with no input.
Then, one of the trims is used to zero out the carrier leakage.

Now with the carrier nulled out, you run a steady tone into the input, and use the other trim to null out the test tone (the idea is, you should only hear the harmonics that are generated by the ring modulator, the original signal should not come through). For a guitar though, you might want to have the second trim as a pot on the box, because then you can mix in the original audio.

Incidentally, I doubt that the nulling will stay corrected if the supply voltages vary. Also, I use multiturn trimpots, a single turn is useless for this.

[markusw]

On my Ring Stinger clone you really have to crank up volume to hear the carrier. It's definitely not an issue.

True....... but, I didn't want to hear the carrier, even cranked

Aaaaallright.....you have to crank up the volume reeeeeally load to hear the carrier

....... at least the two xfmr diode board looks really much cooler than a AD633 

Soundwise I don't have any experience regarding the AD633. Is there any noticeable difference Paul?

[chunks717]

thanks paul.................
    that was my impression, but since i could not nail it, thought they
may not be not independant of each other....I'll try multi-turn...

has anyone seen an ad533 datasheet? I've looked long and hard.....
(without paying for it that is.............)

[Floyd Pepper]

How about this http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html

[markusw]

How about this http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html

This is the "heart" of the Ring Stinger.

[chunks717]

so does any one know the xformer specs for this to work?
I have seen lots of allusions to any small 1:1 audio will work,
but no one has made that statement feel like law to me.
I also read 600:600, but thats one to one....just a nominal rating?
or is that impedance relatively significant...........
I read about Stancor A-4713, but cannot find details.........
matched diodes=null carrier bleed (or nearly) true?
or is it more like resistor bridge, where the ratio of 1 to 2, must
equal 3 to 4.....(for nothing in the middle?=null?)....thanks

[markusw]

so does any one know the xformer specs for this to work?
I have seen lots of allusions to any small 1:1 audio will work,
but no one has made that statement feel like law to me.
I also read 600:600, but thats one to one....just a nominal rating?
or is that impedance relatively significant...........
I read about Stancor A-4713, but cannot find details.........
matched diodes=null carrier bleed (or nearly) true?
or is it more like resistor bridge, where the ratio of 1 to 2, must
equal 3 to 4.....(for nothing in the middle?=null?)....thanks

The LT-44 is 20k:1k impedance, 660R/80R DC resistance. So I believe the 42TM006 (or maybe the 019 or 024) should work nicely.

Matched diodes seems to be obligatory. However, the xfmr trim pot (20 turn IIRC) improves the situation to nearly no carrier break through.

I also would like to know whether impedance or DC resistance are the specs to look for. Also it would be interesting to know if 20k:1k has an advantage over let's say a 10k:10k xfmr.


Regards,

Markus

[chunks717]

DC resistance is a xformer spec?.....by nature they cannot pass DC, accept for that milisec. when switched on or off.
(when DC would be "alternating" from on to off/etc ..right?) I wonder what that rating would be telling us.........
is the ohm rating on a transformer purely illustrative? that is :Is it just numbers showing the relationship
between Prim, and Secondary? or is there somethin 'real' about that impedence/resistance?

also, I think I blew my 633 by lifting ground while the max1044 was pumping.  Op amps still work, nothing out
of the 4quad tho........and I picked up some hiss somewhere before it went, so I'm not done yet...........
I am using +9,-9 and I did hit the carrier null(hard to nail, but it is there),  it seems like It changes over freq,
and amplitude of the carrier......
20 turn panel mount pot?? I'm on hold until I can get new chip order................

also I remember someone mentioning that X (or Y?) 'likes' to be guitar better, tho I couldn't image why this
would be....cannot find the thread.......maybe that was about xform ring mod, and sending gtr through xformer
left pure ac signal or something...........as opposed to the diode path in (Y).................who knows

[markusw]

Good questions chunks717 

Would be happy about an answer too!