Lovetone meatball: some questions:ethical and technical

[charbot]

I just built the mcmeat and boy, is it cool.   
I was try to find some historical information on the original effect, but an a little confused.

As far as i can tell, the lovetone meatball was first built in 1995.  Unless this a reissue of an older effect, wouldn't this conflict with the ethical position that this forum takes on cloning new stuff(less than 25 years old) or effects currently in production, especially small innovative boutique builders?   
Also,  does anyone know how closely the mcmeat resembles the original meatball circuit?   Is it a close copy or near approximation?

and now one  technical question....   with the fx loop; I have jacks like the ones pictured on the pisotones site, except that mine have an extra(9th) prong that extends down from the metal that wrap around the outside of the case. obviously this is for grounding, but I don't know if or what I should connect it  to.  The prong numbering on the pisotones diagram does not match the numbering on my switches.  Should I use the numbers or disregard them and wire it according to the diagram?
Sorry if these are answered in a previous post...  The search has been"broken" for the last few days
    ethical issues aside, this pedal is totally amazing.  Sound like playing guitar underwater.   Thank you Joep, Moosapotamus, pisotones, and all of the mcmeat builder here.

[nelson]

The Mcmeat is no longer made.

The designer isnt losing any money by having his or her design freely available.

It certainly hasnt hurt the used prices either.

Ethical Dilemna over.

Just wire the jacks so they disconnect the loop between them when a plug is inserted. Allowing the signal to go through whatever is in the loop.

[charbot]

The Mcmeat is no longer made.

Are you sure.  It seems that they are still available through the Dinosaural site, though very expensive.   http://www.dinosaural.com/productsandservices.asp

are these surpluss units?

maybe I should just drop this topic.   I dont want to be the kid who reminds the teacher that she forgot to assign homework.

thanks for the reply

[puretube]

the "original" is the: MEATBALL
the "clone" is: "McMeat"

[Unbeliever]

Ethical Dilemna over.

Not only is your information possibly incorrect (assuming you meant 'Meatball' and not 'McMeat'), but I think it is impossible to summarise the ethical dilemma so succinctly - unless you have arrived at a higher plane of existence than the rest of us.

Charbot, it is *my* opion (ethical and moral) that if you make a McMeat for yourself, then that's fine, and if you make a few for friends - and only charge them for parts + materials costs - then that's fine, but anything else is 'not fine'. e.g if someone hears you are making Meatball clones and offers to pay you $200 for one, and you agree -> not fine. However, you need to develop your own 'moral scale' that you can live by and feel comfortable with. Most people only make one or at most two of any pedal that can be built, so it's not a problem. Dark temptation lies down the path of pedal-making for profit, however.

Now, as has been discussed ad-nauseam in the past, the legal side of such things is a different matter entirely. However, for me at least, living my moral and ethical standards leads to a happier life than living to 'business' standards (which are very well regulated on one hand with taxes, standards etc, but completely non-regulated on the other hand with respect to morals).

[charbot]

    So the "meatball" is still produced by lovetone but its alright for diyers to build a few mcmeats...however if lovetone went out of buisness(or any other manufacturer) or ceased production on a model, it would be fair game to sell for profit.?

thanks

[Gus]

I have been inside a number of lovetones.  They are well made effects with good parts.  The only thing that seems to break are the switches: however the people I know that use them(they make a living playing) use them on the road so even the switch going bad is normal wear IMO like the tires on a car.  I have changed a few switches for my friends but that was the only part need in a lovetone "repair"

Most cheap cloners are not going to build the box to the same standard as a lovetone.   Lovetone does not use diecast boxes.  The pots are very good not cheaper alphas the jacks seem to hold up even the paint the PC  board is well made the wiring the soldering ...............................

Build it for yourself who cares .
  Build it and sell it who cares!  I do not think it would  come close to the lovetone build quality.
  It would be like a yugo  next to a 7 series BMW .

[nelson]

Ethical Dilemna over.

Not only is your information possibly incorrect (assuming you meant 'Meatball' and not 'McMeat'), but I think it is impossible to summarise the ethical dilemma so succinctly - unless you have arrived at a higher plane of existence than the rest of us.

Charbot, it is *my* opion (ethical and moral) that if you make a McMeat for yourself, then that's fine, and if you make a few for friends - and only charge them for parts + materials costs - then that's fine, but anything else is 'not fine'. e.g if someone hears you are making Meatball clones and offers to pay you $200 for one, and you agree -> not fine. However, you need to develop your own 'moral scale' that you can live by and feel comfortable with. Most people only make one or at most two of any pedal that can be built, so it's not a problem. Dark temptation lies down the path of pedal-making for profit, however.

Now, as has been discussed ad-nauseam in the past, the legal side of such things is a different matter entirely. However, for me at least, living my moral and ethical standards leads to a happier life than living to 'business' standards (which are very well regulated on one hand with taxes, standards etc, but completely non-regulated on the other hand with respect to morals).

It is that simple, AFAIK the Meatball is no longer in production. I believe The dinosaural units are NOS.

Building this design in large quantities and selling was not part of the question.

The question was is this ok to have on the forum, given our little gentlemens agreement? That agreement being no schematics to be posted for current production effects where there is a consensus that the company in question is innovative.



The answer is yes its fine as its no longer produced. To distribute the schematic, discuss it on the forum and build for personal use.

I support this agreement.

I dont see my comments as succinct.

It was a valid answer given the question.

IF he had asked the question Is it ok to sell these?

Then I would have said, aslong as you use your own layout its not strictly illegal.

Its up to yourself to make the ethical judgement.

But, its very hard to survive on a bouteekers income.

[Unbeliever]

But, its very hard to survive on a bouteekers income.

Just out of curiousity - what experience do you have that has led you to this conclusion?

[charbot]

ok fellas, lets discuss something that everyone can agree upon: namely how to correctly wire those switchable jacks.  Im sorry if this a simple question but I am just begining to comprehend how they work and I couldn't really find the right info by searching.(at least it works now)
I've followed to pisotones diagram but do not get sound when the effects loop is disconnected.    Do I need a wire to ground connecting the jacks, in addition to the wiring shown?   Does anyone know of a site(IN ENGLISH) that explains how to hook these things up?  do the prongs vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, like transistors?   Sorry to interrupt with newbie stuff.  You may continue fighting 

[Unbeliever]

You may continue fighting 

It's called 'fencing', thanks very much.

Sorry, can't help with the jacks right now, haven't built a 'McMeat'. Someone is sure to have the info tho.....

[charbot]

touche'

forget the loop switches, I just got them working.   had the make/break reversed...duh....

had to look at the data sheet one more time.

[nelson]

But, its very hard to survive on a bouteekers income.

Just out of curiousity - what experience do you have that has led you to this conclusion?

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

[Unbeliever]

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

Ahhh ....

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

Perhaps very wise!

[puretube]

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

Ahhh ....

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

Perhaps very wise!

Silly me has been trying to survive by designing innovative pedals
since over a dozen years...
I wanna survive selling them, for another dozen, or two...

maybe unwise, but experienced!
gathered info in real life outside the web.

[Processaurus]

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

Ahhh ....

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

Perhaps very wise!

Silly me has been trying to survive by designing innovative pedals
since over a dozen years...
I wanna survive selling them, for another dozen, or two...

maybe unwise, but experienced!
gathered info in real life outside the web.

What are you driving these days?

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I'm kinda surviving making fx boxes.. but, I don't own a car! Couldn't do it if I did.

As for the Lovetone stuff.... it's kind of a slightly special case, because Lovetone has quit a couple of times, I think the thing is, whenever they get a 'real' job, pedals don't look too profitable. Then, when there is nothing better to do...! (I don't have any personal knowledge, that's just how it looks to me). Excellent pedals, but there are plenty of other roads to "close enough for rock & roll".

[puretube]

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

Ahhh ....

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

Perhaps very wise!

Silly me has been trying to survive by designing innovative pedals
since over a dozen years...
I wanna survive selling them, for another dozen, or two...

maybe unwise, but experienced!
gathered info in real life outside the web.

What are you driving these days?

this:



most of the time...

[nelson]

No experience, just shared info from the forum.

Ahhh ....

I would never try to survive by selling pedals.

Perhaps very wise!

Silly me has been trying to survive by designing innovative pedals
since over a dozen years...
I wanna survive selling them, for another dozen, or two...

maybe unwise, but experienced!
gathered info in real life outside the web.

Well, thats you. Mucho respect for achieving that.

I have plenty of time to gain experience, I am 22.


I do not have the desire to make this a full time job. 

I will leave that burden to people like you Ton, and Zvex.

I do this for myself, its probably more about seeing if I can accomplish the ideas in my head than even playing guitar now.

If people like my warped ideas I will sell a few to supplement my income.

One thing is for sure, I will never sell a TS808, FF, Ross comp, Small clone, Big muff, Rangemaster in any form or anything else that anyone currently makes.

Whats the point?

Its like the soviets going to the moon in 1970.