DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts

[blanik]

Hmmm, Testing I did was in photoshop and everything was in scale. Which software are you using?

I have used everything I can get my hands on, including photoshop. How can I express this so that you can understand me. THE IMAGE ITSELF IS WAY LARGE. Regardless of what software I use to process it, the image itself is way out of scale. It is the same size in everything I've tried. Everything I use requires a 37% reduction and then a bit of adjustment because the scaling is affected by the border. Why would the program matter? What am I not understanding that causes you to think that the program used would make a difference?
It's manageable, but a nuisance.
Ron

ok guys, graphic design 101...

there are two thing that define the size of an image,

1- the actual size (inches X inches) or (pixel X pixel) or (mm X mm)

2a- The resolution... DPI  (Dot Per Inch), screen resolution is 72 dpi (meaning 72 pixels side by side is an inch long) all images on the web (the images that makes the background of a page, icons, pictures) are usually at 72 dpi...
{test: (download a couple of random images on your computer with right-click and open them in Photoshop then click on IMAGE then sub-menu IMAGE SIZE... you'll see the image size indicated in inches X inches (or pixels X pixels) and under that you'll see the resolution of the image (72 dpi usually on the web)}

2b- For printing the resolution is (usually) home printer : 150 dpi (roughly twice web resolution) professionnal printer 300 dpi and i even worked on 600 dpi stuff for posters or special printing processes...

there's also 2 functions to resize the image in photoshop :
A) while keeping the resolution intact, wich means the image has to be resampled, where you can loose definition if you oversize the original or make it physically smaller...
B) you can also resize the image without resampling it wich means the resolution will vary according to the resize your doing...         

example:
-original image is  4" X 4" at 300 dpi, you double it's size (resample checked) it'll become 8" X 8" at 300 dpi meaning that you will have lost quality because the computer had to "invent" the missing pixels when it double the image...
-same image if you uncheck "resample" function and double it's size, it'll become 8" X 8" at 150 dpi wich means it's basicly the exact same image but it will be interpreted differently by the computer, only the size reference have changed...

sooooooo it brings us to DIY Layout Creator Inc.  ,
when you render a pnp, it come out at roughly 200 dpi (odd but very workable), when you render the layout (with parts and list) it comes out at 72 dpi (the creator of the program knew those layouts would be posted on the web  )

soo back to our pnp image it comes out at 200 dpi, if you open it in photoshop it's coing to look larger than the life size of the board (if the pnp would come out at 72 dpi it would look exactly the same size on screen and in real life but the printing would be crappy)
but photoshop makes the difference between resolution and size and if you print it from photoshop, it's going to be the right size at high resolution (unless you toyed with the image and did something you didn't know about  )

OTOH if you opened it in some other application or even Explorer and printed it from there, the app might just have seen pixels and interpreted them at 72 dpi, so your 200 dpi image will become gigantic...

fewww, i hope this wasn't too confusing (it shure is trying to explain it in words  )

R.

[markm]

I think it all makes sense.
Nice job blanik, seems this may be quite helpful. 

[Ronsonic]

Confusing? Heck no. Makes much more sense than "it should be perfect in photoshop." Thanks.

Of course the problem is that the image will / must be manipulated or there's no point in using photoshop in the first place. If one just wanted one pcb you could press "print PnP" and all's good and the size is right and everything. Is there a picture format that defines the size and has suitable resolution that DIYLC could export to without being a pain? I feel pretty awkward asking for improvements in freeware that otherwise works well.

Have I mentioned that you are incredibly cool for creating this program and putting up with the questions and issues around it.

Thank you.

Ron

[bancika]

As I said before, I have big plans for this piece of software (none of them is making it non-free ), but just couldn't find time for it. A month ago I found a job and I have even less time. Drawing routines will (must) be completely redone with some other technique. This one is the most complicated and slow I can think of. I've done everything by hand. I'm also thinking of moving to Java or even making it web application...
Cheers

[markm]

As I said before, I have big plans for this piece of software (none of them is making it non-free ), but just couldn't find time for it. A month ago I found a job and I have even less time. Drawing routines will (must) be completely redone with some other technique. This one is the most complicated and slow I can think of. I've done everything by hand. I'm also thinking of moving to Java or even making it web application...
Cheers

Bancika,
Keep us informed on this please, your program is AMAZING!

[RLBJR65]

Marks right, it's AMAZING! 

A web based program would be cool, might give some people more access to it.
For example it would be great for anyone who works in an office and can't load a program on the office PC but can get on-line.
Not that I'm promoting screwing off at work but... we all know it happens anyway

[Santi]

Hello,

First of all let me joint together to congratulate bancika about his labour for the DIYers community, thanks a lot friend.

Well and talkinng about resolutions, photoshop and DIY Layout Creator ...... I don't know if I have understand blanik's explanation, what resolution is right to make a picture (*.jpeg) with the real size aspects with regard to the 72dpi of an "original" layout?

Thanks in advance guys, keep Rock'n!!!

[bancika]

good news, especially for non Windows users. Not long ago I started working with Java. Plan is to write DIYLC completely from scratch in Java. Of course, I plan to use same concept so existing files would be compatible with new version. It will be faster (Java has native support for transparent drawing) and it will work on any machine with Java installed, non OS dependent. As soon as I master Java enough I'll dig in.

Cheers.

[pyrop]

good news, especially for non Windows users. Not long ago I started working with Java. Plan is to write DIYLC completely from scratch in Java. Of course, I plan to use same concept so existing files would be compatible with new version. It will be faster (Java has native support for transparent drawing) and it will work on any machine with Java installed, non OS dependent. As soon as I master Java enough I'll dig in.

Cheers.

WooHoo...
Thanks Bancika your work is appreciated...

pyrop

[RLBJR65]

WooHoo... Thanks Bancika your work is appreciated...
pyrop

I'll second that

[Santi]

 GREAT!

[bancika]

and the first screenshot. Don't laugh, it took me whole evening to make this.

[$uperpuma]

pretty I want to make a layout for some food...

[bluesdevil]

Thanks for this easy to use program..... I can even make layouts with it!!! I finally upgraded to the newest version of this and now have a problem. I cannot get a trace to highlight in red, like in the previous version I had. I can click on the pads in the "toolbox" and they become highlighted in red but no change when I try it on the traces. Anybody have the same problem? I'm running it in Windows 2000 Professional.
                 Thanks again!!

[pyrop]

I cannot get a trace to highlight in red, like in the previous version I had.

This issue came up a few pages back & they dont highlight red at all in the latest version (18 oct 06).
If it is a problem for you just reinstall an older version.

pyrop

[bluesdevil]

Thanks Pyrop. I went a few pages back before posting, but I guess not far enough.... man, this is a big thread!!
    I was happy with the version I had, but when I tried to work from newer layouts people made I got an error message so I had to change. Hopefully the bug can be worked out later.
    What I do now is click on each trace in the "explorer" window and hit one of the arrow direction buttons below and see what moves.... sometimes takes a bit of time to find the right trace to edit that way, but it works.

[pyrop]

Thanks Pyrop. I went a few pages back before posting, but I guess not far enough.... man, this is a big thread!!
    I was happy with the version I had, but when I tried to work from newer layouts people made I got an error message so I had to change. Hopefully the bug can be worked out later.
    What I do now is click on each trace in the "explorer" window and hit one of the arrow direction buttons below and see what moves.... sometimes takes a bit of time to find the right trace to edit that way, but it works.

Right click on the trace itself & it should highlight in the "explorer" window....(might take a few seconds)

pyrop

[choklitlove]

hey bancika.  have you ever thought about making a schematic software, or maybe add that to the functions of the current one?  i know that you are currently developing the Java based one, but maybe this could be something to think about while you're making it.  maybe a schematic mode built in.  i know there are schematic softwares out there, but i really like your style.  you also know what it needs to include and what it doesn't.

seems simple enough.  if you could design the DIY layout creator, a simple schematic one seems like it would take you an hour or so.  nothing fancy.  what do you think?

[bancika]

well, engine itself wouldn't be too hard to do I guess, but all those components...
there are many things to consider in such software...I'll think about it but I wouldn't add this to current version. When Java version is complete I'll try to add this too. I'd make it separate program rather than part of this app
Cheers and thanks for ideas.
Bane

[choklitlove]

yeah, only do it if you have some free time or something.  it's not a big deal.  we can't wait for whatever you pump out next.  after all is done, it would be neat to put in like a DIY software suite or something.  or maybe one software with different modes.

that would be the ultimate DIY tool.  awesome.