interesting effect idea?

[icurays1]

Hey, everyone -
  I was in class today and thought of an interesting idea for an effect.  tell me i'm crazy.

What if you split the signal from your guitar input into 2 frequency ranges, like a speaker crossover network - high pass and low pass, say, or any notch variable - and fed each of those seperate signals through a different effect or different paramaters of the same effect?   Like, highs get high gain, lows get lower gain...highs go through a tremelo, lows through a phaser....

has this been done before?  I't be flippin easy, i mean you could just do a quickie crossover network, put it in a box, have 2 outputs for your 2 effects, feed them back through a mix control...blaow!

?

tell me what you think.  oh, and if it's genius, dont try to steal it!!   

[Harry]

Apperently, it has been used for distortion. From when my topic was so rudely high-jacked:

Quote from: MartyMart on May 01, 2006, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: mac on May 01, 2006, 03:19:20 PM
I don't know if this makes sense, but... what about dividing the signal, let's say lows, mids & highs, and applying different and controllable amounts of distortion to each path, and then mixing them back? The range of lows, mids & highs could also be variable.
This way one could apply zero distortion to the lows, 100% to the mids and 25% to th highs.


mac


That'll be the "quattro fuzz" a PAIA/Craig Anderton gizzmo I believe, sounds like a winner, but I've
read some "so-so" build reports ??

MM


I saw a schematic about 18 months ago that was NOT the PAIA kit, (lifted from EPFG iirc). I have been trying off and on to find that one since.   Craig was musing about 8 months ago about new editions of his DIY books, so I was going to wait on buying them, but I'm starting to guess the safe bet is he's way too busy with other projects to really address it.  Maybe it's time to pick up a copy.

[R.G.]

What if you split the signal from your guitar input into 2 frequency ranges...

Welcome to the Re-Inventor's Club.

[icurays1]

oh well.  i felt smart at the time.

I'd still like to hear what it sounds like - anyone heard of it being tried with different effects mixed together, not just different levels of gain?

thanks...

[343 Salty Beans]

It would be interesting, but Lord knows you don't want to be fiddling with THAT too much during a song at a low-light gig...Better have your presets written down. Sounds like it would be hard to twiddle right, but if you did, a definite novelty for stereo-freaks, with some good possibilities. (I'd be more of a stereo-freak if my second amp wasn't broken  )

[Unbeliever]

oh well.  i felt smart at the time.

I wouldn't worry about it, RG likes to point out everything has done before a lot, especially if he's done it (which covers a lot of ground).  In this case, I *think* it was Craig Anderton (or was it PAIA) that did a 'multi-frequency fuzz'

That said, the devil is in the details / implementation ... if you want to give it a go, a state-variable filter is a 'cheap' way to get HP, LP, BP (and notch) signals, just you'll need to watch the phasing as one of them (can't remember which) is 180 degrees out of phase with the other.

[icurays1]

well, sweet...maybe i'll get a-flowin on the breadboard-o-matic.   when i get back from LA next week.  yeah..
~nick

[puretube]

The P.O. sez:
the "organ-guys" been doin`that splitting stuff at least a decade before C.A. was born...

[rockgardenlove]

I re-invent stuff all the time...it gets very annoying

Might sound cool though.

[icurays1]

the "organ-guys" been doin`that splitting stuff at least a decade before C.A. was born...

haha sweet...

oh, btw, my college has a huuge collection of periodicals/journals on elec. enigineering in general...and also...journal of the audio engineering society.  some pretty sweet stuff in that last one - but i can only find them back to like the early 70's.  i was hoping they'd have some stuff from the 50's and 60's...hmm maybe popular mechanics will have some circuits, we've got those back to like...1890 or something.

woo

[SolderBoy]

'multi-frequency fuzz'

I think it is called a "quadra fuzz".  

This idea can be handy for compressors too.

And yeah:  x-over + (2 x phaser) = leslie sim

[stm]

'multi-frequency fuzz'

And yeah:  x-over + (2 x phaser) = leslie sim

I'm gonna say it just once, so here it goes...

A more accurate Leslie sim recipe:

1) 700-800 Hz crossover
2) Lows: Use tremolo (amplitude modulation) on the lows.
3) Highs: Use two vibratos or phasers (frequency modulation) on the highs with their LFO's in antiphase. 
4) Stereo: have stereo outputs by changing the polarity of the dry signal in the Highs mix.  In this way, if everything is mixed down to mono the two modulated vibratos will survive.
5) Use independent LFO's for the Lows and Highs, after all, there are two unchained motors in a real leslie.

Well, it is easy to understand why there are not so many good analog leslie sims out there: it is at least as complex as building two or three modulation effects.

Mhhh, maybe I should erase this...

[Pushtone]

Like, highs get high gain, lows get lower gain...highs go through a tremelo, lows through a phaser....

This would make a great add on to the "The Parallelyzer" at GGG for parallel
effect mixing. Give one output a switch that rolled off highs and another
output that cut all the low freqs. But I guess you could do that with
bandpass filters instead of a x-over.

[puretube]

free information block:

[stm]

Nice amount of info!

This leslie emulating thing may look sometimes like valve emulation with solid-state circuitry--candidate for the dead horse thread!  Nevertheless I still believe it is possible to obtain a decent DIY approximation by using analog circuitry.  So far the analog leslie simulation has been oversimplified, like, "let's compare a good chorus or phaser with a leslie cabinet" (well, the Rolls 147 leslie simulator is the exception to the rule).

One extra thought that I would like to have some feedback about: assuming the low frequency and high frequency rotors spin at nearly the same speed, it appears that the "swoosh" or "throb" produced by the lows cheese element occurs only once per cycle (since there is a single aperture), while the rotors (being two of them) may produce this twice per revolution?

[puretube]

free information block:

[Unbeliever]

A more accurate Leslie sim recipe:

I've never heard one sim I thought sounded much the like real thing (used to play a Voce V5 into a 147 and 760), the closest is the Dynacord ... I think a good Leslie sim is one of the 'holy grails' of analog or digital effects (not picky). If it was as simple as your list someone would have done it already!

[DiyFreaque]

I've actually got a Leslie (rotting in my garage, sadly) so I know it's no easy feat to simulate one.

I've gotten decent Leslie type stuff externally modulating the Dim C.  Right now my 32 stage phase shifter can really put some nice pseudo-Leslie sounds together.  I've just posted some samples of it in 16X2 stereo mode, though nothing attempting to emulate rotary speaker effects. 

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/birthofasynth/id18.html

Bottom of the page starting at '30 April 2005' - I think a guitar would sound splendid through it.  I'll have to try the twin rotational thing with it....

Anyway, back to the issue - Ton, I've never heard a Dynacord CLS-122.  What methodology does it use (delay, phase shift, combo of the two?)?

Cheers,
Scott

[puretube]

free information block:

[Stompin Tom]

Well, at least it's cheap ... you could just buy one and find out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dynachord-CLS-222_W0QQitemZ7411819188QQcategoryZ41415QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem