is the ca3094 obsolete?

[jimbob]

I know of a few places that sell them (Smallbear ect..) but I thought I read somewhere that they are now obsolete. if so, what are the new EH Small Stone's made with?

[Aharon]

CA3080?
Aharon

[A.S.P.]

E-H stocked a "lifetime"-supply, long ago...

3080 is obsolete, too, btw...

[cd]

You know, pretty much anything having to do with DIY FX is obsolete

[nelson]

E-H stocked a "lifetime"-supply, long ago...

3080 is obsolete, too, btw...

Are they ROHS compliant?

[Mark Hammer]

I was under the impression that as long as you wanted to have at least 10,000 units made of something, you could pretty much get anything made that you wanted to, no matter how long it had been off the catalog.  E.g., just where exactly does E-H get all the 3094s it needs for all those Microsynths and Small Stones?  Where does it get all those MN3005s for the Memory Man?

[A.S.P.]

E-H stocked a "lifetime"-supply, long ago...

3080 is obsolete, too, btw...

[jimbob]

I agree. Otherwise where would EH get it? I seen that on the tonepad layout for the Smallstone. It took a little to remember.

[StephenGiles]

E-H stocked a "lifetime"-supply, long ago...

3080 is obsolete, too, btw...

Are they ROHS compliant?

Please remind me what ROHS is.

[cd]

E-H stocked a "lifetime"-supply, long ago...

3080 is obsolete, too, btw...

Are they ROHS compliant?

Please remind me what ROHS is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROHS

[Sir H C]

I was under the impression that as long as you wanted to have at least 10,000 units made of something, you could pretty much get anything made that you wanted to, no matter how long it had been off the catalog.  E.g., just where exactly does E-H get all the 3094s it needs for all those Microsynths and Small Stones?  Where does it get all those MN3005s for the Memory Man?

Kind of right.  It depends if they have taken the process the chip was originally done in and stopped doing it.  Then it is hard to get re-manufactured.  We usually say that to get a fabs interest you have to show at least 1/4 million in business (probably more now).  10,000 parts at $1.00 a part is still just $10k in sales.  Trivial to most fabs.  I guess some places will do single engineering lots if they can be convinced that big sales are coming behind (whether they are or not).  Still you have to redesign said chip and lay it out, not too hard, but a pain all the same, especially if you don't have the software to do it right (and LVS/DRC the dang thing).

[Mark Hammer]

I agree. Otherwise where would EH get it? I seen that on the tonepad layout for the Smallstone. It took a little to remember.

Matsushita has stopped producing/supporting their entire line of BBDs.  So where do pedal-makers like these get them: http://www.visualsound.net/bbd.htm   They have them made.  Yes, I'm certain it is possible for a manufacturer to scour the earth and buy up tons of NOS parts, and I'm sure many have.  But if you had to choose between stockpiling a guesstimated "lifetime supply" and wasting money, time, and effort to track it down AND warehouse it in your inventory, versus buying a bunch to keep you going for a while and simply paying a company to make you as many as you imagine needing for the next 5 years, what would you do?  I'm not a businessman, but it only makes sense to "travel light" and maintain just as much inventory as you need to carry you through for a little while, or a bit past the point when you know you'll be able to have replenished that inventory.  As companies like ECG/NTE regularly demonstrate, you can almost always get an obscure part made if you have enough of an order to justify someone making it for you.  E-H's order size is easily in that ballpark, given the number of products using those parts. 

Other smaller manufacturers, understandably, do not anticipate the sort of sales volume to support those kinds of custom orders, and in those cases I would imagine that they plan around a limited lifespan of a product line, based on the NOS inventory they could get.  For instance, a couple of years ago, when Moogerfooger released their analog delay pedal, it was explicitly described as a limited run pedal because of the limited supply of NOS MN3005 chips.  Presumably, Moogerfooger scored a stash of them and predicated their sales/production strategy around that.  Now either they have had a difficult time selling the pedals (...NOT!...), lied about availability (also unlikely), or stumbled onto another secret stash that extended the lifespan (also unlikely), or else they have joined forces with someone (oh, I dunno, maybe someone based in New York who also uses a bunch) to be able to get some made and assure the ongoing vitality of this product.

[A.S.P.]

http://www.visualsound.net/bbd.htm   They have them made...

you believe in advertising? 

[Sir H C]

And if you are EH and don't allow the manufacturer to sell the chips to other people, you have a market cornered.

[A.S.P.]

 

[jimbob]

Very interesting.

[nelson]

Monopoly is not healthy for an industry.

[Ry]

Monopoly is not healthy for an industry.

This is not a case of a monopoly, this is a case of buying items that allow them to make a product.  Anyone can purchase the same items if they put up enough money.

I look at it this way:  Imagine you are Line 6 (just for the case of argument, this is only an example) and you produce software that resides on a DSP in the POD.  The POD would not exist without said software, so Line 6 went to the effort of having the software written.  The DSP is readily avaliable to anyone to purchase and develop their own code for, but the software that goes on it is made by Line 6.  The software can be looked at as an investment, much like EH having a lot of chips made just for them.  I wouldn't expect Line 6 to sell source code any more than I would expect EH to sell the chips they've had specially made...and we don't say that Line 6 has a monopoly on anything in particular.

[Mark Hammer]

I have absolutely no idea what goes on behind closed doors in the back room, and don't profess to.  But you know, if I had done some preliminary inquiries, and knew that I needed most of what it would take to justify a re-fab run for a long-obsolete chip, and I was kicking back after hours after a sweaty day at m NAMM booth with some folks who I guessed (and found out) also needed most (but not all) of what it would take to make a re-fab run feasible, why wouldn't I approach them with an offer to get these parts made for US exclusively so that we could both maintain our respectve market shares?  As long as the products aren't in direct competition with respect to features and pricepoint, why not?

Does Visual Sound sell enough H2O units that they could justify getting a run of those chips made JUST for them?  I'm going to naively guess "no".  They're big, but not THAT big.  They may say that the chips are made for them, but it would not be completely out of whack to wonder if they go in on a run with another corporate client or two, and are the only ones to actually say they have them made.  Again, I'm talking through my hat.  It could also be that two or more companies approach a potential re-fabricator of the chip in question, and while neither is in collusion with the other, the re-fabricator realizes "Hey, you know between these two corporate clients, it might just be worth my while to make a run of these."  If they sell 2000 units to this guy, 3000 units to that one, and 5000 units to another client, they may ened up making more money than they would selling 10,000 units to a single client.

[A.S.P.]

And if you are EH and don't allow the manufacturer to sell the chips to other people, you have a market cornered.

...then the manufacturer is a p***y

(a biggrin smiley  , or a lol smiley maybe woulda been more appropriate in that previous post, hah!)