New Effect: Payback

[Paul Marossy]

OK, thanks!

[Paul Marossy]

OK, I have a few more questions:

1. If I wanted 120 seconds of record time, which ISD25xx chip would I need to get?
2. What 5V regulator should I use?
3. I am a little confused on how the record/safe switch is to be wired. Has anyone done a little diagram of how that would be wired to an actual DPDT switch?
4. Is the "loop" switch the same as the "record select" switch on the schematic?
5. Is there any wires that need to be shielded?

I think I might finally give this one a try, if I can figure out these last few questions...

[caress]

1. If I wanted 120 seconds of record time, which ISD25xx chip would I need to get?
2. What 5V regulator should I use?
3. I am a little confused on how the record/safe switch is to be wired. Has anyone done a little diagram of how that would be wired to an actual DPDT switch?
4. Is the "loop" switch the same as the "record select" switch on the schematic?
5. Is there any wires that need to be shielded?

all that i can answer at this moment...
1.  the ISD25120 for 120sec, ISD2560 for 60sec, etc...
2.  i'm using a 78L05 (although i haven't fired up the effect yet  ).  pretty sure those are the standard 5v regs.
3.  this has always confused me too...

[Paul Marossy]

Your answers to 1 & 2 are the same as what I was thinking.

Also, will this effect hold your recording indefinitely like that Z Vex looper pedal?

[caress]

4. Is the "loop" switch the same as the "record select" switch on the schematic?

got this and it's no.  the record select switch switches between two different loops that the chip holds.
check this:  http://www.geocities.com/thetonegod/payback/payback.html  and look for multiple recordings

i'm pretty sure that the logic is configured to have it always loop.  i bet if you disconnected the 4093 from pin 23 on the 25xx you would have a one-shot...?

[Paul Marossy]

OK, that makes sense. Now I am confused by the start record switches. It's probably just a semantics game, but I know virtually nothing about digital stuff, so I wouldn't know the difference.

[The Tone God]

1. If I wanted 120 seconds of record time, which ISD25xx chip would I need to get?
2. What 5V regulator should I use?
3. I am a little confused on how the record/safe switch is to be wired. Has anyone done a little diagram of how that would be wired to an actual DPDT switch?
4. Is the "loop" switch the same as the "record select" switch on the schematic?
5. Is there any wires that need to be shielded?

1. You would get the ISD25120 but if you read the article regarding 25XX recomendations the bottle line is that to get more time you lose in audio quality. I would not go to the 120 myself. Quite frankly 60-75 seconds is alot of time.

2. A plain old 78L05 will work. I think I used a LDO regulator in mine.

3. The safe switch disables the record switch which involves disconnecting one connection and jumpering another. It looks more complicated then it is. The safe switch is explained quickly in the article.

4. "Record Select" selects the loop being used. The circuit always loops the selected recording. If you saw "Loop" on my pedal it was just because it was shorter to write.

5. If you are careful in you wire routing then you don't need shielded wire.

Also, will this effect hold your recording indefinitely like that Z Vex looper pedal?

Well for 100,000 years give or take. That is a function of the IC and not the circuit itself.

i'm pretty sure that the logic is configured to have it always loop.  i bet if you disconnected the 4093 from pin 23 on the 25xx you would have a one-shot...?

Yes but you have to manually start the record session as well as the playback session. It's toe tapping fun.

Is this a bad time to mention that I have Payback v1.1 on the drawing board ?

Andrew

[pbrommer]

Is this a bad time to mention that I have Payback v1.1 on the drawing board ?

Andrew

Is this a bad time to say that I finally have the board perfed, and now you go and change it? Damn you Tone God! 

[The Tone God]

Is this a bad time to say that I finally have the board perfed, and now you go and change it? Damn you Tone God! 

Well your still good then but hey it wasn't my choice. It was Winbonds!

Andrew

[Paul Marossy]

Thanks for the clarification! 

[The Tone God]

Oh dang it. Payback v1.2 is on the drawing board too.

Andrew

[Paul Marossy]

Hmm... should I wait to see what V1 & V2 are about before going full bore?

[caress]

Hmm... should I wait to see what V1 & V2 are about before going full bore?

good question...
i probably finished perfing the day you did, paul   

[The Tone God]

Hmm... should I wait to see what V1 & V2 are about before going full bore?

If you can get the ISD25xx then I would say stick with v1.0. It is a proven design. I don't know when I will get the new version(s) done and it will probably take sometime before someone else confirms the design.

The reason for the new version(s) is not new features but Winbond has EOL'd the complete 25xx series. You should still be able to get NOS 25xxs for awhile but I don't like having designs based on old parts so as I promised previously I am going to update Payback. I am also hoping to have a "mini" version that should easily fit in a 1590B.

Andrew

[Paul Marossy]

Hmm... maybe I will hold off on it then. 

[Auke Haarsma]

Hi Andrew, how are the new versions coming along? I'm really curious to see them!

[stumper1]

Bump?

[robbiemcm]

I'm also waiting on the new version before I start my build. Would you mind letting us know what IC you'll be using for the new ones (sorry if you've already mentioned it and I've missed it) that way I can check if it's available where I live.

[The Tone God]

Payback v1.1 is coming soon. I hope to have it out in about a week. I still have some things to finish up with the design but I'll give a few of the definitive bits out.

I was originally planning on doing two versions. One that would be v1.0 with an updated IC and a mini version. I tried to make the mini work but gave up and went to work on the update. The IC I wanted to use for replacement has not gone into full production in DIP format yet. The funny thing is the specs of the IC I wanted were not much if any better then the mini's IC. I tried another IC but there were too many issues to make the update work. Before giving up I decided to go back to the mini and it seems I gave up too soon. Payback v1.1 is now a mix of the original and the mini version which I think is better in the end for everyone.

Okay enough blabbing, here some details about Payback v1.1. It is based on the ISD1600B from Winbond. It is a new IC that comes in a 16pin 300mil (narrow) DIP IC. Beats out that huge 28pin 600mil (wide) DIP previous ICs came in. It will save alot of space making that 1590B goal easy now. The IC costs between $5-7 CDN from Digikey so it is much cheaper too. I got the circuit down to a dual opamp as well saving more space. A 4093 NAND gate will still be needed but the logic physically is simpler to wire up including the record and safe switches.

Some features have been lost to the IC change over. You won't be able to get ICs with as long times. Multiple samples are gone too along with the phase switch. I also decided to not boost the output instead opting to make it unity so the final output pot is gone. As of now the main schematic version will not have vibrato but I will have information on how to add it if you wish.

Time to get back to work on it right now. Yippie.

Andrew

[Auke Haarsma]

Thanks for the update Andrew! It looks really good! It will definately be on my todo list once it is out.