zendrive pedals

[edad]

Does  anyone know if there are layouts for this pedal,or something similiar? I think the zendrive II uses a 12az7 as  well.

[O]

I don't think you'll find a schem here (although if you look hard enough, you might be able to find a very old copy of the Mosferatu pedal). Anyway, Alfonso Hermida posts here, so I don't think he would appreciate us posting his schems.

<opinion>
I've seen a few inside shots of the ZDrive & ZDrive II and to my uneducated eyes, the ZDrive looks like a DOD250/Dist+ with something extra covered in goop. Of course, I'm probably way, way off so YMMV.
</opinion>

[comfortably_numb]

Hermida has some schematics floating around of Dist+ mods he's done (just search).  One is even on the schematics page here!  They look pretty interesting.  I'm curious if the trimpot he uses in the feedback loop isn't the "voice" control on his zendrive?  In any case, just buy the pedal, it sounds amazing.  If I had the money, I'd have two.

[wampcat1]

Alf is a heckuva nice guy, so you may be able to email him, tell him you are looking to diy something that will get you similar results the zendrive and he probably would point you in the general direction. 

bw

[fuzzlab808]

Some years ago i designed and constructed an overdrive pedal with diodes in the feedback loop of an 741 opamp, (a la tubescreamer) but the drive control was a pot connected to the 741 negative input to a capacitor, to ground. This way, when the gain is low, the sound has more bass in it. This is the same behaviour the zendrive "VOICE" control has. You can read more about it here: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2987/fatts.html
So, for me, the zendrive is a tubescreamer style pedal with two different drive controls: The gain control in the feedback loop, like a tubescreamer and the voice control in the opamp negative input, like a distortion+
I hand made and sold  some 80 overdrive pedals 18 years ago here in Spain, and everybody liked it very much over ts9 and boss od1.

[JHS]

The ZEN-drive is a very simple OD with a TS-front and a FET/MOSFET diode clipper published long ago in this forum. Look at Hermida's schem for Dist+ mod and you can see the basic idea. It's a slightly modified Mosferatu , nothing more, and it sounds like an average Dano-, BOSS or IBZ box, maybe a bit more refined. The TIM and Timmy are similar boxes with a similar circuit and nearly the same sound. If you think ithey are Dumbles in a box, dream on, they are only average sounding ODs. None of them can deliver a cranked amp or tube sound, none of them is pick sensitive and none of them react to the guitar volume like a tube-stage.

All of them are more or less derivates of Jack's SoS. If you subs change some part values in the SoS you have the Eternity and a dozend other B-drives bases on the SoS.

If you want to build something similar like the ZEN, Eternity or Mosferatu take the SoS and the 2nd from Jack's FAT GNAT, some ideas from this forum, combine it and fool around with some part values and different ICs and you have what you want ...

JHS

[aron]

If you think ithey are Dumbles in a box, dream on, they are only average sounding ODs. None of them can deliver a cranked amp or tube sound, none of them is pick sensitive and none of them react to the guitar volume like a tube-stage.

Perhaps all true, but the list of users is pretty impressive. Apparently it's good enough for those users.

[koulis]

The list of users is very impresive indeed! I could not resist and ordered one last winter,i am expecting it propably next week...
I am very curious about the hype of this pedal,i am going to find out my self if it's worth the money and the wait...
Alfonso Hermida is a very kind and honest person.I thought that buying one of his pedals would help the diy community in general as he is also a member of this forum...

Cheers

[JHS]

Nearly one year delivery time, that's OK for an oceanliner but not for a simple FX-pedal, IMHO 3-4 weeks max. is acceptable.
The ZEN is a very good sounding FX, if used with the right equipment but it's only a OD and won't cure a bad sounding amp or guitar.

JHS

[MartyMart]

I just recieved an MI Audio "blue boy deluxe" which are hand made to order and it took
less than three weeks, including shipping from Australia !!!
( I also encourage supporting the "hand built" people who contribute here )
A year is a joke IMO  !
MM.

[koulis]

Nearly one year delivery time, that's OK for an oceanliner but not for a simple FX-pedal, IMHO 3-4 weeks max. is acceptable.
The ZEN is a very good sounding FX, if used with the right equipment but it's only a OD and won't cure a bad sounding amp or guitar.

JHS

You are absolutely right!!!It seems that the waiting period may be also a part of the hype
AnalogMan's KOT has a waiting list of 2 years+

[koulis]

I just recieved an MI Audio "blue boy deluxe" which are hand made to order and it took
less than three weeks, including shipping from Australia !!!
( I also encourage supporting the "hand built" people who contribute here )
A year is a joke IMO  !
MM.

I just ordered this pedal plus the blues pro overdrive
Lots of good opinions about both pedals...

[wampcat1]

JHS is right on the money IMO... Alf is a great guy, yes. The pedal is a good sounding tubescreamer derivative, yes. Amazing? no. Does the list of users prove it sounds amazing? No. I have several session guitarists in Nashville that I work with that use them, AND about 50 other overdrives. Variety and choice is key. No one uses just one pedal.

If you are looking to support Alf, buy one for sure. heck, just send Aron some cash if you are REALLY wanting to support DIY.

If you are wanting to DIY then build an SoS with mosfet clippers and make the 4.7k on the nfb a 5k pot in series with a 470 ohm. Then the second lp filter make a 10k pot and a .022uf cap instead of the 1k/.22uf.

However, don't expect anything A WHOLE lot different. Still good sounding. IMO, if you want a good sounding TS variant, take the SOS circuit and add a 3 band eq on the end, a 100hz, a 800 hz, and a 5khz.

If you are a good guitarist you'll be able to make anything sound good. If you are a mediocre guitarist, you'll be mediocre after buying any pedal. If you are not very good at all, you'll sound like a guitarist who isn't very good at all playing through an overdrive pedal.

These are all truths no matter WHO'S pedals, designs, etc, you are using.

bw

[theblueark]

Just to contribute, I had a zendrive. Took a year and a half from my order. From my understanding, alf initially built the pedal one by one, but after a favorable review in a guitar mag, plus some big names using it, plus the immense hype generated from thegearpage, he got more orders than he could handle.

Hence he started looking into help to speed up the production. Help takes a while to train and be perfectly ready, so there was a time lag. Things have sped up since then though.

Having tried the zendrive, i'd say it's a very dark pedal. There's more lower mids than your average tubescreamer, which to me has more upper mids than the zen. It's a very nice effect, if i was a blues player i'd say that'll be the tone i'm aiming for. I settled with the stupid box though, for a rauchier, more gnarly tone.

[Celadine]

The "waiting lists" seem to be a marketing tool initiated by the Klon guy.  What, 11 years after he introduces it, theres still a waiting list?  Please.  Simply more hype generated by holding back production.  And it works! 

<Yes, I know some boutiquers really get caught unawares, but if a pedal is out for some years, the story gets stale.>

[Plinky]

A friend of mine let me borrow his Zendrive to look over. It's a nice sounding overdrive with an added presence control from my first impression. Almost everything on the pcb has been covered in goop or has had the numbers sanded off. For a one year+ wait and the price it grabs, I would expect a little higher quality. Neatly routed solid core wire instead of strewn about stranded wire, metal film resistors instead of carbon film, tantalum caps rather than electrolytic. Not to be rude, but I really don't see what makes this pedal difficult to produce or worthy of the price. Lately my friend uses the TS pedal I built for him more than this pedal.

[greigoroth]

A little economic theory explains both the price of this pedal and the waiting time.

Let's say, for arguments sake, that I have a pedal, the Buddhist-drive. I make them on my kitchen table. I can only make a certain amount per day. Why do I make them? Well, I have a cool design and I enjoy making pedals. Good enough reason for me! Given that it is soley me that makes the pedals I have a max pedal building rate. That is, the supply is limited. If, for whatever reason, my Buddhist-drive starts getting some kick-arse reviews, every man and his dog is going to want one. Supply is limited, and the increased demand drives the price up. The difference between supply and demand is expressed in the waiting time. Initially the waiting time might be one week, but as demand gets greater the queue gets longer and the prices is driven up.

Usually a price rise has a negative effect on demand, but guitarists on their own search for the holy-grail tone are a peculiar lot. This is where the psychological aspect of price-setting occurs. Would Chanel perfume be as desirable if everyone's girlfriend/wife could afford it? No. Its price tag signifies a luxury, a quality, a rarity. That in itself is something desirable for the customer. And so it is in the boutique world. The Digitech Bad Monkey (that's what it is called yeah?) gets fantastic reviews, is easily moddable and is soundwise right up there in the TS-clone stakes (or so I have heard). But the housing looks a bit ho-hum and it is priced so that any 14 year old kid can take it home and plug it into his or her Peavy Rage. And it's called "Digitech". Come on.
Put that same pedal in a lush housing, price it so that only a few can afford it and that same pedal is per default desirable. It has caché. Put Chanel no. 5 in a plastic hotel shampoo botel and sell it for 10 bucks... who's going to buy it? No-one. Price is a powerful psychological symbol coupled to quality, status, desirablity... all sorts of stuff (okay, even though I kinda think business studies is a mug's game I am partial to pricing theory... you guys may have noticed...)

There are also a whole lot of factors that affect whether one would want to expand a pedal building operation. I with my succesful Buddhist-drive might not want to expand the business - there are different laws regarding tax and accounting, I have to become a manager, I have to maintain quality control, I am responsible for other people's livelihoods - and this in turn is going to affect my profit margin. It is entirely possible that my Buddhist-drive that costs me €50 to make (and leaves me with €100 profit after everything) could end up costing more per unit and delivering substantially less profit such that the expansion is not viable - especially in the early stages of expansion what with administrative, capital and wage costs but not a huge expansion in output. The boutique market is after all quite small.

I am not saying that the Zendrive is a digitech, nor I am saying that Alfonso sits at home soldering on his kitchen table. I just want to point out that there is more to pricing than meets the eye. People shouldn't believe that a €300 pedal is 3 times better than a €100 pedal. You are just paying for different products.

That said I think there have been some great posts on this thread, with regard both to the pedal and to how one could go about DIY-ing a similar sound. Good work boys (and girls?)!

[DougH]

Nearly one year delivery time, that's OK for an oceanliner but not for a simple FX-pedal, IMHO 3-4 weeks max. is acceptable.

The "waiting lists" seem to be a marketing tool initiated by the Klon guy.  What, 11 years after he introduces it, theres still a waiting list?  Please.  Simply more hype generated by holding back production.  And it works!

Wait times are worth whatever they are worth to the people involved in the business transaction. A wait time of 10 yrs might be okay if it's something you want bad enough. If not, there are usually plenty of alternatives to try, esp in this market. Alf and the Klon guy have plenty of happy customers content to wait in line, and who are satisfied with the results. That's all that matters. If enough people get out of line and go elsewhere and enough business drops off, they will have to think of a new strategy. Until that time, it's a non-issue.

Personally, it's not worth the time it takes me to put my keys in my pocket so I can drive to a music store to buy a commercial dirt box, let alone mail and etc delays from buying boutique stuff. It's just too much fun to design/build my own, so most commercial dirt boxes bore me. Obviously I'm not in the market so wait times have no effect on me one way or another.

Most of these guys start off as simple operations and wait times go with the territory. As long as they have enough business for them to accomplish their goals, there's no reason to change. And why should they? Because some guys on a DIY forum somewhere who are never going to buy their stuff anyway complain about it?!?!?

[Mark Hammer]

The "waiting lists" seem to be a marketing tool initiated by the Klon guy.  What, 11 years after he introduces it, theres still a waiting list?  Please.  Simply more hype generated by holding back production.  And it works! 

I have had the pleasure of speaking with (Klon maker) Bill Finnegan at length (about business and not as a potential customer) and can tell you with great confidence that he very much wishes he could get the waiting time down and is contemplating some possible changes to production method that might be able to do that for him (as do most boutique makers).  Perhaps waiting times do breed a certain mystique the way that "playing hard to get" can sometimes make men or women seem more attractive.  But it is not by intention.  The selling prices commanded on e-bay by rare products do NOTHING for the bottom line of the original manufacturer, only that of the purchaser-turned-seller.  The manufacturer can only increase profits by turning out more of the product with decreased overhead costs and selling more pedals to more people.

As for why it takes so long for delivery, ask yourself when the last time was that you could just phone up one of the major manufacturers and talk to them about their product for a half hour, or send them an e-mail that requires them to take a half hour to read it and respond.  Now multiply that times the number of potential inquiring calls or e-mails in a day.  Now add to that the time taken to attend to all your other daily chores in life and business, including ordering inventory, arguing with suppliers and distributors (and listening to "Your call is important to us.  Please wait for the next available agent." 30 or 40 times, just like regular folks do), making improvements to the website, paying bills, organizing stock and paperwork, buying groceries, doing laundry, etc.  Now, somewhere in there, try and find time to solder all those boards and install them in the chassis.

Are you starting to get the gist of why it takes so long to get some of these pedals sometimes?  Trust me, they wish they could take an order and have the pedal Fedexed the next day, but they simply can't do it.  Not until they get bigger.  That's a huge (if not entire) part of why when people tell me "Hey, you should make pedals, man", I politely decline.  Even under the best of circumstances, it IS a full-time job, and if you already have a full-time job that pays well without killing you, why on earth would you switch to something that is likely to be 24/7 for a while?

One of the things that rarely gets discussed is that the "early adopters" of some of the higher priced pedals like the Centaur and Zendrive, tend to be folks who already have a pretty decent rig.  The pedal itself merely brings out more of what is already "in" the rig.  In some cases, they also have tech/roadies who know the musician's tastes and tone, and try stuff out for them, bringing it to their attention whenever they stumble across something that they believe dovetails with it.  They are NOT 16 year-olds who want to buy a pedal that makes them sound different than they already sound.  As a result, the favourable reviews and celebrity endorsements come from those where the existing equipment complements the pedal.

[GonzoFonts]

I have had the pleasure of speaking with (Klon maker) Bill Finnegan at length (about business and not as a potential customer) and can tell you with great confidence that he very much wishes he could get the waiting time down and is contemplating some possible changes to production method that might be able to do that for him (as do most boutique makers).

It took him 11 years to figure out that he needed to become more efficient in production to reduce delivery times???

Give me a break!!!

I am with Celadine on this one.

GF