Anyone use stompboxes with modelers?

[Ed G.]

Some grumpy band members think our stage volume is too loud so they want us to go direct to board.  The keyboard player has a digitech RP50, a dinky little unit, but it has a fender blackface model I want to use with my bsiab2 and other effects. In essence, replace my guitar amp with the modeler. Anyone do this?

[MartyMart]

Pods respond quite well to "FX" up front, just watch the FX volume a little, to avoid nasty
digital breakup.
The little Korg amp modeler is also a great sound, for 89 bucks !! ( G10 ? )
I use my pod with the Condor/SSS at the back ... sounds V- good like that , much
better than the pod's own speaker sim.

MM.

[Cliff Schecht]

I have an old Korg PX2 pocket modeler (The old old Pandora model) and it kept me alive while I was in the dorms. It sounds great through high quality headphones.

[aron]

Go direct through the board and ask them to crank up the monitors :-)

Just joking. The modelers seem OK with pedals but I hope you guys use the same monitoring system most of the time.

[Ed G.]

I'm hoping this doesn't work, the other guys will see their folly, and will want us to go back to amps.
The guitar amps weren't the problem. The guy who runs the band, kept futzing around with the PA all night and the onstage volume kept getting louder and louder because he's never freaking happy with the sound of the monitors. I let them know I'm against it and I plan to be plenty picky as far as my monitor mix. If it doesn't sound absolutely freaking great to me I'm gonna bitch.
The bass player added a 2x10 cabinet to his rig, he was loud, but nobody's asking him to plug in direct. The keyboard player, loud too, he's got his own keyboard amp, nobody's asking him to go direct. They pick on the freaking guitar players, and I'm pissed.
Maybe playing direct is the way of the future but I'm going to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. They're not going to like this.

[wampcat1]

I feel your pain...my church is the last in my area where the musicians actually use amps. I just can NOT get into going direct at all.
I hate to say it, but unless you guys have seperate monitor mixes, you are probably going to be unhappy.

bw

[$uperpuma]

what is it with churches and not liking "real" sound... I used to play drums (don't hold that against me) for a church and the didn't just have a drum shield...they had a drum cube... COMPLETELY enclosed.... it was the worst idea EVER....

[r080]

I'm new to the forum, but here is my take:  I just bought a POD XT Live, and I think they did a great job. I took about 1 solid hour to get a good amp sound, and I run my pedal board into that, then to the board.

I think DSP itself has come along far enough that is is more worth my time to read in the digital forum than the analog.

That's my two bits (two 1/8 Dollars--25 Cents).

[petemoore]

  Some grumpy band members think our stage volume is too loud so they want us to go direct to board.   The keyboard player has a digitech RP50, a dinky little unit, but it has a fender blackface model I want to use with my bsiab2 and other effects. In essence, replace my guitar amp with the modeler. Anyone do this?
 Anyone do this? If you mean try modelers when you've know tube amp OR get approached by an insulting dillema concocted by some smart guy...Yes and Yes, I've done both, and both are drags.
I'm hoping this doesn't work
 Put a Mosfet Boost on a switch, set for 10, inside the guitar....LoL !!
 These people with amp problems...I've seen them freak out over thier amp problems all by themselves..before there were even any amps plugged in...
 Example
 Speaker pointing from above behind my amp> Foreward > directly into the mic...
 When I asked for it to be turned on..."DUDE, IT"S YOUR MIC...It FEEDSBACK..[over the Pa he sezz...]. [wsheesh ...thanks..
 I think 'Those in Charge' enjoy fussing about...when you're within range of their chain they may bark at you, and you may get bit, they are allowed to bite because within the chain/collar range is their domain...OTOH, I've seen others take shots at them [they're always there...] and run away...it can make 'em mean like a chained animal....try not to get lured within their chain range...if your gig is within their domain, you may have to let them bite you, because they can and will...the only reasoning I can come up with is that they get a kick out of 'fixing' the musician.
 I don't like to leave and will put up with alot of stupidity, [I try for 'not show ups' at the very least instead], sometimes 'leaving' can be shown as the only reasonable option, even taking all other people into consideration...say if one smart guy is successfully ruining it for everybody.

[MartyMart]

Without wishing to "offend" most "muso's" dont have the faintest clue about live sound and monitoring !!
As soon as I hear of band members "futzing around" with monitoring and amp levels .... it makes me cringe !!

Sometimes the little "club owner" or "Groom at the wedding gig" are even worse , I remember once doing "Bass" duties
at a wedding gig, and was just "tuning up" at about 1/20th performance volume and was told to "turn that racket down" !!

..... I knew we were in for a rough night  !! 

MM>      " Oh the joy's of live performance "

[idlechatterbox]

As someone already said, the little Korgs work very well, and the early ones only required two batteries, so I've used them. Behringer's modeller makes some great tones and it doesn't seem (to me) to matter where you put it in the chain. I've had the pandora do some weird things depending on where it was in the path of the effects (e.g., before or after a phaser box). Going way to the other side of the scale, in terms of modelling real amps real good, the boss gt-6 wins in my book. I just wish that it didn't weigh a ton and take up so much space. 

[petemoore]

  It doens't necessarily HAVE to be that difficult...especially if you start off with substantial enough equipment in the first place.
  What makes it hardest is the humans. Humans that get the half scalded grimace look on their heads like 'Your just making trouble for me"...when not registering NECessary info like don't point the mic at the speaker is STRONGLY suggested.
  I think ADD is becoming more common these days, and is rewarded. It is quite common to have one in charge with ADD, they do things wrong consistantly, but never seem to get real upset...always working with it, but never catching a glimpse of how it actually functions or could function.
  Some people can be told 38+ times a night to not point the mic in the speaker...it is better to hire a sound man with a super quick extra left hand on their mics volume control.
  Others have a cell phone to help with attention problems, it will ring right when the concept of understanding feedbacks limitations is almost realized, but nothing registers except the excitement of that phone ring, again, triggering something  [recoginition it might be the Rok Dealer?].
  Often times, people with a cell phone who run 'hotline central' just don't have time to reconfigure their programs. You can 'try' to get them to register the very useful info contained on page 1 of the Mic Manual while they're thinking about page 9, but your efforts may or may not be rewarded with any Cognoscence.
  After numerous attempts to relate to page 1 of mic manual, I would try a "How about trying sidefill monitors" thwarted by "It'll feedback"...
  I think part of it isn't ADD, 'they' just don't really want the music to actually get off the ground and fly . unless 'they're' piloting, because that can be Very Disarming and embarassing, It goes against their beliefs.

[bwanasonic]

Personally, I'd try mic' ing a small (low wattage) amp, placed like a stage monitor.

Kerry M

[vanhansen]

I recently purchased a Vox AD50VT amp.  My Marshall head blew the power tranny and it's gonna cost too much to get it fixed, more than it cost to get the Vox.  So, I got something with a little more diversity.  I use my Marsha Valve boost out front with excellent results.  The Mosfet Boost works well and the SD-1 and ZW-44 like it too.  The DI isn't bad at all from it actually, but not quite warm enough.  Supposedly it has some sort of cabinet emulation there.....says so in the manual anyway.  Our bass player is trying to convert me to going direct but I'm kinda resistant right now.  I like mic'd up amps better.  Right now everything is going through the mixer except me, although I have a mic hanging in front of my amp that goes to the house monitors.  Some people just don't understand the difference and that speaker has a lot to do with the sound. 

I'm toying with the idea of getting the Ultra-G DI box and/or making the Condor.  I've read nothing but good things about both and the clips of the Condor sound pretty good.  Can the JFET gain stage be left out if it's being used between the line out of an amp and a mixer?

[Ed G.]

I've got the weber miniMASS, and I'll use it as a dummy load, go from the mass output into a speaker simulator, I'm checking out the behringer ultra-di for 35 bucks. It has a speaker sim. So most of my rig stays intact, and no digital model tone. All analog signal path. I'm happy now.

[vanhansen]

Ed, please post your thoughts about the Ultra-G DI after you try it out.  I'm assuming you mean the Ultra-G since you mentioned the speaker simulator (simulates a 4x12 cab).  I'm interested in that too.  In the meantime, I'm going to build the Condor and eliminate the JFET stage at the beginning.  I'll compensate for the signal loss using my amp's MV and at the console.

[MartyMart]

I've got the weber miniMASS, and I'll use it as a dummy load, go from the mass output into a speaker simulator, I'm checking out the behringer ultra-di for 35 bucks. It has a speaker sim. So most of my rig stays intact, and no digital model tone. All analog signal path. I'm happy now.

Ed, that Behringer with the J Rath speaker sim sounds fantastic BTW !! well worth having .

MM.

[Ed G.]

Yeah, it's the simplest solution for me and the best as far as keeping my rig.
I'm also interested if I can get the same quality tone from my Super Champ, it's a 1x10" combo, 18 watts, all tube, designed by Paul Rivera. Since I won't be using speakers, the amp just generates the tone. Should lighten my load.

[petemoore]

  The assumption seems that having control at the board of the guitar volume takes precedence over whatever tonal comparisons haven't been made.
  Having no idea, except from experiences, what to expect of a digital replication into board into PA speakers leads to thinking whatever you have going, tonally, is bound to be at the very least, figured out better. Your tube rig is almost assuredly more 'versatile ez' at this point than attempting to adapt instantly to...whatever you can find that the grumpies can have a will volume control on...echh..I shudder to think of it...
  Perhaps standing the bad amp in facing to the corner for the occasion would be enough.
  Another alternative, although not BYSOB because of the lethal voltages involved with amp modding...is something I've put on my 5e3, a grid attenuator which allow mixing of tube volume And, one tube or the other. With one tube running out of two, this puts a lid on volume, and allows the guitar to sound louder at more reasonable volumes. @ 15w, I may have trouble getting spanky highs to cut in a stage mix, but the amp will not rip heads off and does all that cranked tube amp stuff without sounding very loud. I have another, then an SM57 for louder necessities.
  IOW having close to the exact size tube amp for the venue makes tube amping less cumbersome.
  With one modded for 1 or 2 tubes, and the other one, I have choices of abouts 7.5w - 15w [adjustable] and 30w's which equates to: loud bedroom, practice/not so loud band, and louder band w/2x,2x12's...stereoluschious.
 

[puddinstone]

I'm sure not everyone can do this in every situation but....

I play at a couple of churches weekly and at one I put my amp in a back room (acually a tunnel under the choir loft) and it's mic'ed there.  This allows me to crank it and get that sound but not have any stage volume.  This church uses an in-ear system so I'm using some shure in ear moniters but this could obviously be put in floor moniters for a place that uses those. 

The other church I play at isn't as concerned about the volume as much so I turn my amp away from the house and towards the wall I'm beside.  The wall has an acoustic treatment so it doesn't bounce.  This is a much more practical approch in club situations.  Just tilt it upwards towards you or get some kind of baffold to help stop the sound from carrying.

Michael