Etchers, Kinkos will fail ye...

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

they are changing their machines (at least, here they are).

i go in today with the intention of making a couple of transfers. I cut, tape, and smooth my paper, now covered by transfers, and place it into the machine. I print a couple of test runs, getting that noise/color ration juuuuust right. Then, i print onto the photo paper. The result looks ok at first, but appears 'distorted' on a couple of traces. confused, i gently touch the trace, and the toner flakes off. bewildered, i try a second page, and get similar results. Finally, i ask an employee, who informs me that they recently 'upgraded' the machines.

Basically... beware. Those new ones are utter garbage if you want toner to adhere to glossy paper.

i now have to find a new method... 

[Cliff Schecht]

I've had good luck with both cheaper and more expensive Samsung printers. My dad has a higher end one and I've never had a transfer fail, using both gloss paper and PnP.

[any]

I know from experience that newer Xerox copiers in the Docucolor series will also
fail in creating transferable toner prints. Xerox now incorporates the "fuser oil"
into the toner causing it not to stick and get all watery when heated.
Here's a pic of what newer Xerox machines will produce as Pnp result:

Not really a pretty sight! I tried about 10x before I realized it was the toner.... 

[KORGULL]

Oh no, I've been using Kinkos exclusively, but haven't been there in many months. Thanks for the tip. I'll ask them about it before I start making copies.

I might just have to finally break down and buy a laser printer.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

If anyone is buying a laser printer just for doing PCBs, generally the older the better, in that modern ones are often designed to be very miserley on toner (which means TOO LIGHT!).
Any advice people can give regarding printers they have had GOOD experience with, would be valuable.

[David]

This issue is only going to become worse as toner "cheapens up" everywhere.  I'm thinking that buying up all the old laser printers on the market is not going to be the right long-term solution.  What other options might there be?  How hard would DIY photoetching be?

[$uperpuma]

once you get familiar with the process photoetching isnt bad...but gettin the equipment together is a pricey pain compared to the PnP method... I've had GREAT resulst with the Samsung ML-2010... small footprint.. a little noisy..but is only about $100seems a little flimsy for a business with hardcore printing needs, but I bought expressly for PCBs and it is working GREAT for that. Old HP 5L's and 6L's work great too

[Dave_B]

What other options might there be?  How hard would DIY photoetching be?

It's really not hard.  The way I did it was not the cheapest, but it's still not bad, IMO. 
You'll need:

Good inkjet transparency film
A blacklight
Pre-sensitized PCB boards
A piece of glass to hold the artwork against the PCB board
The chemical for developing it
A plastic tray

The film was the most expensive investment.  I use FastPOSITIVE InkJet Film.  It's $41 for 100 sheets.  That should last me a while.
The blacklight can cost you $30, but I've used an $8 blacklight in a desklamp with plenty of success.

[stumper1]

I bought a New in Box Dell 1100 printer on e-bay for $39 (plus $10 shipping).  I use it just for PnP.  It works great.

[(doug harrison)]

I've always used presensitized photopositive boards. Not that difficult. All you need is a transfer of the circuit traces, a good lightbulb (or sunlight), and developer. After exposure, etch as normal.

It's also good to have some dry transfers on hand to patch up any mistakes. any's board could be touched up with dry transfer in about ten minutes, then etched for a perfectly good board.

I've never even tried Press'n Pell

Ocean State Electronics (http://www.oselectronics.com/cat_index.htm#PCB%20Supplies%20Alphabetical%20Index)
Jameco (www.jameco.com)
RSR/Electronics Express (www.elexp.com)

[Cliff Schecht]

If anyone is buying a laser printer just for doing PCBs, generally the older the better, in that modern ones are often designed to be very miserley on toner (which means TOO LIGHT!).
Any advice people can give regarding printers they have had GOOD experience with, would be valuable.

The Samsung printers have been working for a couple of years now. You can get those toner refiller kits too, which makes it a really cheap venture that will pay for itself fast. Also, the printers drivers (or the windows print manager) allow you to choose how dark to print everything and on the darkest setting, I've never had a transfer fail.

[z7yh]

I used a konica minolta bizhub 180. its only 5 or 6 months old and it worked great. I did 50 different boards 6 weeks ago and I only had to touch up 2 traces, one was too close to the edge, and the other one was the first one I did before I got the hang of it.
dave

[JisforJustin]

I bought a New in Box Dell 1100 printer on e-bay for $39 (plus $10 shipping).  I use it just for PnP.  It works great.

I was wondering what laser printers could be bought cheap and work well with the PnP sheets. I have had occasional problems with printers jamming and destorying the PnP sheets, such as other Dell printers (unfortunately I do not know the model).

[brett]

Hi
For PNP, I tape the leading and trailing edges to the copy with "invisible" tape before printing/photocopying.  Don't worry, it won't melt or stick to the drum.

If using paper instead of PnP, spray a film of water dispersant onto the PCB before ironing on the toner.  I think it helps melt the toner (or maybe it was my imagination).  I've used WD-40, but RP-7 and generic products should work the same.

cheers.